1 2013-06-14T02:46:13 *** ana_ananasova
2 2013-06-14T04:27:05 <sharky93> moin
3 2013-06-14T04:35:14 *** ashutosh1461
4 2013-06-14T04:40:03 <ashutosh1461> moin
5 2013-06-14T04:41:39 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, So checking through each view .. we can need index and backrefs for previous revisions in case a user wants to find some information about a previous revision?
6 2013-06-14T04:48:03 *** ashutosh1461
7 2013-06-14T04:48:41 *** ashutosh1461
8 2013-06-14T04:51:39 *** asingla
9 2013-06-14T05:06:38 *** ashutosh1461
10 2013-06-14T05:32:10 *** allure
11 2013-06-14T05:46:19 *** ana_ananasova
12 2013-06-14T06:01:20 <sharky93> TheSheep, should we not maybe finalize on some other things before starting to code ?
13 2013-06-14T06:15:38 *** ashutosh1461
14 2013-06-14T06:31:11 *** ana_ananasova
15 2013-06-14T06:51:23 *** ashutosh1461
16 2013-06-14T06:51:53 *** ashutosh1461
17 2013-06-14T07:19:07 <asingla_> ThomasWaldmann: also forwarded 364 https://bitbucket.org/thomaswaldmann/moin-2.0/issue/364 to whoosh bug tracker, https://bitbucket.org/mchaput/whoosh/issue/321/
18 2013-06-14T07:33:49 *** asingla_
19 2013-06-14T07:34:27 *** asingla
20 2013-06-14T07:35:03 *** allure
21 2013-06-14T07:36:37 *** asingla
22 2013-06-14T07:37:29 *** asingla
23 2013-06-14T07:38:20 <ThomasWaldmann> asingla: backrefs only makes limited sense for old refs and we don't have that info in the index for old revs
24 2013-06-14T07:39:02 <ThomasWaldmann> and with index it is a quite similar problem
25 2013-06-14T07:43:02 <ashutosh1461> so do we need that functionality?
26 2013-06-14T07:44:19 <ThomasWaldmann> you can't reasonably implement it
27 2013-06-14T07:46:11 <ThomasWaldmann> e.g. if rev A refers to item name X and Y, both might be gone or renamed at a later time
28 2013-06-14T07:47:10 <ThomasWaldmann> that's why backrefs only works on current data / current revs index
29 2013-06-14T07:47:44 <ashutosh1461> yes, does not make much sense in that case.
30 2013-06-14T07:49:45 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, can you think of any more scenarios where n-gram search would be required ? .. an example being searching for item-names for adding transclusions or linking while in edit mode ..
31 2013-06-14T07:49:57 <ThomasWaldmann> and about #364 / #321 - i think you need to add more explanation why that is a whoosh issue
32 2013-06-14T07:51:03 <ThomasWaldmann> in general, you need to be much more precise when talking about something otherwise it will be troublesome to understand
33 2013-06-14T07:51:46 <ThomasWaldmann> sharky93: ngram search is nice, we should have it
34 2013-06-14T07:51:53 <ashutosh1461> ok fine :)
35 2013-06-14T07:52:13 <ThomasWaldmann> sharky93: also for content, likely
36 2013-06-14T07:53:17 <ThomasWaldmann> ashutosh1461: also put the link to 321 into 364
37 2013-06-14T07:55:09 <ThomasWaldmann> that item_name_analyzer is moin code, that might be confusing/misleading in a whoosh bug if you don't tell more details
38 2013-06-14T07:56:01 <ashutosh1461> that particular code is used many times in the whoosh documentation to give examples, so i dont think there would be a problem there.
39 2013-06-14T08:07:34 <ashutosh1461> and about creating items on the basis of itemid, we discussed it earlier you said it can make sense if one does not need a name at first, like in pastebin.
40 2013-06-14T08:10:43 *** sharky93
41 2013-06-14T08:21:05 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, ^^
42 2013-06-14T08:23:11 *** sharky93
43 2013-06-14T08:23:17 <ThomasWaldmann> not sure what you are referring to
44 2013-06-14T08:31:06 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, creating items on the basis of itemid and allowing the possibility to enter name later in the JSON meta
45 2013-06-14T08:34:40 <ThomasWaldmann> yes, but think about the workflow and use cases (as ever)
46 2013-06-14T08:40:53 <ana_ananasova> since the talk is about itemids. is it ok to store the subscribers list to an item in meta as user profile itemid?
47 2013-06-14T08:41:23 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, i am clear about the workflow, tried out a test case earlier to deal with it by changing the DummyItem and related classes to have itemid support,
48 2013-06-14T08:41:31 <ashutosh1461> worked out well
49 2013-06-14T08:43:02 <ashutosh1461> but cannot think about a use case. you earlier said it could come handy in pastebin or similar stuff ?
50 2013-06-14T08:50:58 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, ngram for content is confusing, can you elaborate a bit.., it is mostly useful for search-as-you-type fields ..
51 2013-06-14T08:55:47 <ThomasWaldmann> what's the fundamental difference between a pagename and content?
52 2013-06-14T09:07:36 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, well there's no restriction on content, pagename's are usually small ..
53 2013-06-14T09:12:10 *** greg_f
54 2013-06-14T09:15:56 <ThomasWaldmann> sharky93: doesn't sound like a fundamental difference (we'll have to see whether index grows to big for ngrams, but for now i think we can do it for any field until otherwise proven)
55 2013-06-14T09:19:59 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, so while the search is being done for the content.. the what we display as the result for "search-as-you-type" will be page-names ?
56 2013-06-14T09:23:10 <sharky93> TheSheep, ^
57 2013-06-14T09:29:26 <ThomasWaldmann> that depends on the context
58 2013-06-14T09:29:49 <ThomasWaldmann> if you want a pagename, you do it only for pagenames
59 2013-06-14T09:31:10 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, quicklinks for previous revisions, would be good?
60 2013-06-14T09:32:30 <TheSheep> sharky93: I think it would be nice to build it in such a way, that you can later add searches for other things, for example tags
61 2013-06-14T09:35:27 <ThomasWaldmann> ashutosh1461: use case?
62 2013-06-14T09:35:56 <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep: yeah, of course :)
63 2013-06-14T09:47:46 <sharky93> TheSheep, how about in the results, we indicate that this is a pagename .. this is a tag which matched so on so forth
64 2013-06-14T09:48:33 <sharky93> we have to also keep in mind that what we display is concise since we do not have a view .. it is search-as-you-type
65 2013-06-14T10:01:07 *** ana_ananasova
66 2013-06-14T10:05:55 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, not quite handy always, but can be useful sometimes, suppose i want to refer to a previous revision that contains some useful information that the current rev does not have (quite frequently), I would like to add quicklink to that rev, instead of going to the history each time and finding the rev each time.
67 2013-06-14T10:06:30 <xiaq> sharky93: this can be worth a read: http://ruby.bvision.com/blog/please-stop-embedding-bootstrap-classes-in-your-html
68 2013-06-14T10:06:55 <xiaq> it says bootstrap, but it's actually a general approach in using frontend frameworks
69 2013-06-14T10:13:33 <sharky93> hmm, true
70 2013-06-14T10:26:25 <ThomasWaldmann> ashutosh1461: yes, pastebins could be addressed by (shortened) itemid in the url
71 2013-06-14T10:27:24 <ThomasWaldmann> ashutosh1461: if an old rev is so interesting that you need it regularly, something is wrong with the current rev
72 2013-06-14T10:46:01 *** greg_f
73 2013-06-14T10:46:51 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, went through all the views, looks like we dont need much REVID support here :) ..
74 2013-06-14T10:48:01 <xiaq> new Flask and Werkzeug release! http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2013/6/13/werkzeug-and-flask-releases/
75 2013-06-14T10:48:06 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: are we moving along?
76 2013-06-14T10:56:50 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: http://etherpad.osuosl.org/moin-tickets line17
77 2013-06-14T10:57:36 *** greg_f
78 2013-06-14T10:58:40 *** greg_f
79 2013-06-14T10:59:33 <xiaq> sharky93: the idea is to use semantic classes in html, and style the semantic classes by mixing in "presentation classes" that frontend frameworks generally provide
80 2013-06-14T11:01:58 <sharky93> xiaq, yeah, i understand that :) .. btw we finally decided to not go for frontend frameworks this Soc .. it was getting a bit unclear
81 2013-06-14T11:02:26 <xiaq> sharky93: ah too bad
82 2013-06-14T11:09:09 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: i already work on raising some version requirements in setup.py, but need to do more testing
83 2013-06-14T11:10:14 <ThomasWaldmann> sharky93: is there some docs about that decision?
84 2013-06-14T11:11:04 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, http://etherpad.osuosl.org/moin-ui lines 37+
85 2013-06-14T11:16:37 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, so you gave up searching for alternatives?
86 2013-06-14T11:17:49 <ThomasWaldmann> doing everything on your own (#1devs==1, #users==1) is maybe even worse than using a framework that has few developers/users
87 2013-06-14T11:18:36 <ThomasWaldmann> and in case there is really nothing out there that matches our requirements, we can re-think them
88 2013-06-14T11:21:35 <sharky93> we finally agreed that maybe it is better to try improving on the current theme, make it look less ugly, than maybe starting from scratch adapting to it .. we may not be ready for it just yet..
89 2013-06-14T11:21:39 <sharky93> TheSheep, ^
90 2013-06-14T11:22:42 <xiaq> sharky93: how do you think about theming in moin2? there are 2 themes now in the main repo, some things can be definitely improved. duplicate templates, duplicate css...
91 2013-06-14T11:24:38 <ThomasWaldmann> i somehow don't see how it is better to put a lot of work in streamlining the current css manually and then later throw it aways and choose some framework
92 2013-06-14T11:25:42 <ThomasWaldmann> (nothing against deduplicating and better structuring, i am rather talking about style of the UI)
93 2013-06-14T11:27:52 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, anything else on REVID support ?
94 2013-06-14T11:28:30 <ThomasWaldmann> ashutosh1461: the big picture is missing. you need to think through how this works on ALL layers
95 2013-06-14T11:29:20 <ThomasWaldmann> urls, views, storage layers, api
96 2013-06-14T11:30:49 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, it may be better to wait and work the best with what we have .. but im also not too sure with this
97 2013-06-14T11:32:00 <ThomasWaldmann> wait for what?
98 2013-06-14T11:36:46 <sharky93> for a framework that suits us
99 2013-06-14T11:39:59 <sharky93> but we eventually will have to migrate i guess ..
100 2013-06-14T11:40:33 <sharky93> TheSheep, what do you think .. we may re-think our requirements.
101 2013-06-14T11:45:20 <sharky93> TheSheep, i am thinking of going over foundation.zurb.com again ..
102 2013-06-14T11:47:06 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, TheSheep imho, it is a bit difficult to evaluate a whole framework in a short time .
103 2013-06-14T11:47:14 *** ana_ananasova
104 2013-06-14T11:49:39 <xiaq> sharky93: maybe instead of a full framework, a css grid system would be helpful as well? there are lots of them afaik
105 2013-06-14T12:05:03 *** ashutosh1461
106 2013-06-14T12:13:22 <sharky93> xiaq, in the future we'll eventually have a frontend framework .. i think what matters is if we do it *now*
107 2013-06-14T12:34:17 *** dave_largo
108 2013-06-14T12:58:00 *** ana_ananasova
109 2013-06-14T13:09:53 *** dav1d
110 2013-06-14T13:10:29 *** dav1d
111 2013-06-14T14:17:24 *** ana_ananasova
112 2013-06-14T15:09:37 <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: I'm afraid that redoing the whole ui in a framework may be too much work
113 2013-06-14T15:10:17 *** ana_ananasova
114 2013-06-14T15:18:49 *** sunu
115 2013-06-14T15:22:22 *** ana_ananasova
116 2013-06-14T15:31:15 <sharky93> TheSheep, moin
117 2013-06-14T15:31:18 <sharky93> TheSheep, how about planning as we go?
118 2013-06-14T15:34:37 <TheSheep> sharky93: that's inevitable in a way, because once we fix the problems that are clearly visible now, new problems will become visible
119 2013-06-14T15:36:23 <sharky93> TheSheep, hmm true, btw Thomas did have a point with putting in work in streamlining the current css .. and then later throwing it away ..
120 2013-06-14T15:36:44 <sharky93> TheSheep, although i clearly agree, redoing the whole ui in a framework might be too much work
121 2013-06-14T15:40:25 *** ana_ananasova
122 2013-06-14T15:47:30 *** asingla
123 2013-06-14T15:47:30 *** waldi
124 2013-06-14T15:47:30 *** dreimark_
125 2013-06-14T15:47:30 *** ThomasWaldmann
126 2013-06-14T15:47:30 *** dreimark
127 2013-06-14T15:47:31 *** xiaq
128 2013-06-14T15:53:20 *** ana_ananasova
129 2013-06-14T15:53:35 *** SunuTheNinja
130 2013-06-14T15:53:37 *** not-xjjk
131 2013-06-14T15:53:46 *** dreimark
132 2013-06-14T15:56:13 *** greg_f
133 2013-06-14T15:57:08 *** xjjk
134 2013-06-14T15:57:18 *** eSyr-ng
135 2013-06-14T15:58:27 *** waldi
136 2013-06-14T15:58:27 *** waldi
137 2013-06-14T15:58:29 *** asingla
138 2013-06-14T15:58:32 *** ThomasWaldmann
139 2013-06-14T15:59:24 *** greg_f
140 2013-06-14T15:59:26 *** SunuTheNinja
141 2013-06-14T15:59:41 <ThomasWaldmann> looks like they shut down some of the working freenode ipv6 and ssl servers
142 2013-06-14T15:59:49 *** dreimark_
143 2013-06-14T15:59:49 *** eSyr-ng
144 2013-06-14T16:00:06 * ThomasWaldmann currently uses calvino.freenode.net which is slooooow but works
145 2013-06-14T16:07:13 *** SunuTheNinja
146 2013-06-14T16:10:34 * ThomasWaldmann must go, bbl.
147 2013-06-14T16:21:44 *** xiaq_
148 2013-06-14T16:58:33 <sharky93> TheSheep, navigation using keys such as 'j' and 'k' for up and down scrolling.. would we want that ?
149 2013-06-14T17:01:30 <sharky93> well not only scrolls, but navigating over links
150 2013-06-14T17:04:57 <TheSheep> sharky93: I can't see that as a high priority
151 2013-06-14T17:20:33 <sharky93> hmm
152 2013-06-14T17:21:08 *** ana_ananasova
153 2013-06-14T17:22:15 <sharky93> TheSheep, anything else you would want me to look up during this period?
154 2013-06-14T17:22:20 <sharky93> or should we get coding?
155 2013-06-14T17:22:52 <TheSheep> sharky93: the mockups for the front page in different frameworks
156 2013-06-14T17:24:22 <sharky93> but, will be using it anyway?
157 2013-06-14T17:25:21 <sharky93> TheSheep, ^
158 2013-06-14T17:27:29 *** greg_f
159 2013-06-14T17:31:31 <TheSheep> sharky93: I think that we can use it in the new stuff, and if we still have time, convert some of the old stuff to it
160 2013-06-14T17:31:55 <TheSheep> sharky93: then the rest can be converted outside of gsoc or next time
161 2013-06-14T17:33:10 *** brunomartin
162 2013-06-14T17:45:54 *** brunomartin
163 2013-06-14T18:14:34 *** xiaq_
164 2013-06-14T18:19:14 <dreimark_> re
165 2013-06-14T18:19:27 * dreimark_ greetings from berlin
166 2013-06-14T18:30:27 <TheSheep> BEEEEERLIIIIIN!
167 2013-06-14T18:30:34 <TheSheep> first, we take Manhattan
168 2013-06-14T18:33:16 <sunu> Take Manhattan? TheSheep has an evil plan for world domination? :O
169 2013-06-14T18:33:47 * sunu waves hello to everyone :)
170 2013-06-14T18:33:53 <TheSheep> destruction. domination is boring
171 2013-06-14T18:34:39 <sunu> And your weapons of mass destuction are made of wool? :-P
172 2013-06-14T18:37:35 <TheSheep> laugh while you still can
173 2013-06-14T18:39:15 <dreimark_> lol
174 2013-06-14T18:40:20 <sharky93> dreimark, work related stuff in berlin?
175 2013-06-14T18:41:31 <sharky93> hi sunu , use "/nick SunuTheNinja" and you can still save it :P
176 2013-06-14T18:47:58 <sunu> sharky93: One Ninja is not enough for an evil sheep :P
177 2013-06-14T18:48:40 <sharky93> sunu maybe use your monster buddy which is "away" :P
178 2013-06-14T19:24:58 <sharky93> TheSheep, how about this @ http://web.iiit.ac.in/~rishabh.raj/gumby/custom/my.html
179 2013-06-14T19:25:13 <sharky93> TheSheep, it still is in a very crude form, but ..
180 2013-06-14T19:28:32 <TheSheep> sharky93: it's not the way to modify it, you should just modify the variables in the settings file to change the colors
181 2013-06-14T19:34:40 <sharky93> TheSheep, hmm true, i was just going for not compiling too often .. apart from that ?
182 2013-06-14T19:38:12 <TheSheep> what are you asking for exactly?
183 2013-06-14T19:41:25 <sharky93> i mean is this a fair mockup of the front page :)
184 2013-06-14T19:57:28 <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep: blueprint (suggestion from StuPIG workshop)
185 2013-06-14T19:57:51 <TheSheep> sharky93: it's pretty bad, to be honest :)
186 2013-06-14T19:58:06 <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: oh, I forgot about that one
187 2013-06-14T19:58:22 <TheSheep> http://blueprintcss.org/
188 2013-06-14T19:59:24 <dreimark_> sharky93: rather python itself, we work on schoolar student courses
189 2013-06-14T19:59:41 <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: looks basic
190 2013-06-14T19:59:55 <dreimark_> course
191 2013-06-14T20:00:19 <dreimark_> gn
192 2013-06-14T20:01:56 <ThomasWaldmann> right, looks basic
193 2013-06-14T20:02:03 <sharky93> TheSheep, yep i agree :D but to be fair i'm not too sure what part in a framework do we want to tap by building a mockup?
194 2013-06-14T20:04:05 <TheSheep> sharky93: consistent positioning and sizing, consistent fonts, colors and looks of interface elements
195 2013-06-14T20:05:40 <TheSheep> sharky93: also, the use of the same navigation elements helps
196 2013-06-14T20:07:02 <TheSheep> but to do that, you need to actually use the grid and not do floats and paddings yourself
197 2013-06-14T20:12:34 <sharky93> TheSheep, the grid is quite powerful after all ..
198 2013-06-14T20:13:42 <TheSheep> all hail the gird
199 2013-06-14T20:13:47 <TheSheep> nevermind
200 2013-06-14T20:14:02 <sharky93> TheSheep, so the main difference we have across frameworks now is basically the default looks of interface elements ..
201 2013-06-14T20:14:10 <TheSheep> I see that gumby's navigation is not as flexible as bootstrap's
202 2013-06-14T20:14:45 <TheSheep> no, the default looks is irrelevant
203 2013-06-14T20:15:13 <TheSheep> the whole point of using a framework is that you can just change a few things in the framework's settings to completely change the looks
204 2013-06-14T20:15:52 <TheSheep> what we care about in those frameworks is mostly whether they allow us to do all that we want to do, and how easy it is
205 2013-06-14T20:21:27 <sharky93> TheSheep, what makes you feel that gumby's nav. is not as flexible?
206 2013-06-14T20:23:34 *** chitrank
207 2013-06-14T20:48:20 <sharky93> TheSheep, did you look up foundation too?
208 2013-06-14T20:58:10 <TheSheep> it's listed on the etheroad
209 2013-06-14T20:58:17 <TheSheep> etherpad
210 2013-06-14T21:03:02 <sharky93> TheSheep, ok, i will try using the grid system in a better way ..
211 2013-06-14T21:04:10 <sharky93> TheSheep, foundation i find similar to gumby
212 2013-06-14T21:04:20 <sharky93> TheSheep, anything else for the three days we have ?
213 2013-06-14T21:08:39 <TheSheep> I can only repeat what I said before
214 2013-06-14T21:23:49 *** dave_largo
215 2013-06-14T21:36:31 *** chitrank
216 2013-06-14T21:39:02 *** chitrank
217 2013-06-14T21:39:15 *** chitrank
218 2013-06-14T22:43:18 *** xorAxAx
219 2013-06-14T22:46:00 *** xorAxAx
220
