1 2012-09-06T00:05:15 *** spy
2 2012-09-06T01:08:18 *** jaiditya
3 2012-09-06T01:40:53 *** dwcramer
4 2012-09-06T03:31:12 *** hughperkins
5 2012-09-06T03:47:39 <hughperkins> Hey! for the apache vs gpl licensing issue, I'm thinking maybe we separate the functional tests and the unit tests? The unit tests are currently in MoinMoin directory. Perhaps we could create a new directory, called for example "functionaltests", and put only functional tests in that directory. This way the functional tests only import selenium, not moinmoin, so there should not be a license conflict. What do you think?
6 2012-09-06T04:02:00 <hughperkins> (logging out, but I will check the logs)
7 2012-09-06T04:02:05 *** hughperkins
8 2012-09-06T04:50:03 *** dwcramer
9 2012-09-06T05:06:09 *** dwcramer
10 2012-09-06T05:34:46 *** hughperkins
11 2012-09-06T05:36:19 *** hughperkins
12 2012-09-06T05:38:04 *** dwcramer
13 2012-09-06T05:50:52 *** dwcramer
14 2012-09-06T08:28:43 *** dwcramer
15 2012-09-06T08:34:28 <dreimark> moin
16 2012-09-06T09:30:58 *** ebo^
17 2012-09-06T09:58:43 *** hughperkins
18 2012-09-06T10:14:18 *** hughperkins
19 2012-09-06T10:15:13 *** hughperkins
20 2012-09-06T10:42:45 <hughperkins> Hi . Can you please check this checkin for a selenium test of creating a subitem? http://codereview.appspot.com/6498095/
21 2012-09-06T10:49:44 *** hughperkins
22 2012-09-06T11:06:40 <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann: the value of X there is a non-unicode string containing python idetificator.
23 2012-09-06T11:07:18 <ThomasWaldmann> that's ok then
24 2012-09-06T11:07:40 <ThomasWaldmann> and moin btw :)
25 2012-09-06T11:08:16 <MaikuMori> moin :)
26 2012-09-06T11:11:38 <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann: call me blind, I think I fixed all typos.
27 2012-09-06T11:12:06 <MaikuMori> Which reminds me that I need to get spellcheck going on linux env.
28 2012-09-06T11:27:41 <ThomasWaldmann> you "fixed" clasess to clases
29 2012-09-06T11:27:50 <ThomasWaldmann> correct is classes
30 2012-09-06T11:35:21 <ThomasWaldmann> sometimes just reading hg diff | less word-for-word before committing is enough to find such errors
31 2012-09-06T12:48:24 *** hughperkins
32 2012-09-06T12:49:16 <hughperkins> Hi. I submitted code to codereview a couple of hours ago. What is the next step for committing to mercurial?
33 2012-09-06T12:51:26 <ThomasWaldmann> hughperkins: the licensing stuff needs to be cleared first
34 2012-09-06T12:51:51 <hughperkins> Hi Thomas, I've separated the selenium and the unit-testing things, so there is no longer any licensing conflict
35 2012-09-06T12:52:02 <ThomasWaldmann> just using a separate directory doesn't seem far fetched, but not sure it helps us anything with licensing
36 2012-09-06T12:52:19 <hughperkins> I've created a new directory just for functional testing called 'functionaltesting' which only imports selenium, and doesn't import anything moinmoin related
37 2012-09-06T12:52:24 <ThomasWaldmann> we'ld still distribute it together, it might still import moin code
38 2012-09-06T12:52:34 <hughperkins> It doesn't import moin code ;-)
39 2012-09-06T12:53:06 <ThomasWaldmann> ah, ok. so how about distribution?
40 2012-09-06T12:53:36 <hughperkins> According to the wiki page that Dreimark posted here recently, the issue is mostly to do with linkage rather than distribution I think?
41 2012-09-06T12:53:49 <hughperkins> eg, linux is a distribution together, but each individual software might have completely different licenses
42 2012-09-06T12:53:51 <ThomasWaldmann> IANAL :)
43 2012-09-06T12:54:13 <hughperkins> I'm pretty sure it's ok, using linux, eg Ubuntu, as reasonably strong evidence.
44 2012-09-06T12:54:21 <hughperkins> If someone complains we can think more about it at that point?
45 2012-09-06T12:54:22 <ThomasWaldmann> yes, but for linux dists, you have separate packages, while for us it would be in same package
46 2012-09-06T12:54:39 <hughperkins> What is your definition of 'package'?
47 2012-09-06T12:54:56 <ThomasWaldmann> the moin download, the linux dist's moin packages
48 2012-09-06T12:55:21 <hughperkins> I mean, more like a 'lawyer' type definition of package.
49 2012-09-06T12:55:32 <hughperkins> I'm not sure that 'package' is a defintiion used in the gpl or apache license?
50 2012-09-06T12:55:41 <hughperkins> I think mostly the definition is along the lines of a linked program.
51 2012-09-06T12:55:48 <hughperkins> let me find the web page dreimark linked to...
52 2012-09-06T12:56:08 <ThomasWaldmann> i think they also talk about distribution. don't remember the details though.
53 2012-09-06T12:56:22 <hughperkins> (Hmmm, is there a way to search the logs?)
54 2012-09-06T12:56:38 <ThomasWaldmann> all logs from the chat are on the wiki
55 2012-09-06T12:57:01 <hughperkins> but they're per-day
56 2012-09-06T12:57:13 <hughperkins> It might be nice to be able to search a whole month of logs :-P
57 2012-09-06T12:57:23 <hughperkins> Ok, here is the webpage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Linking_and_derived_work
58 2012-09-06T12:57:29 <ThomasWaldmann> well, use some appropriate search query
59 2012-09-06T12:57:41 * ThomasWaldmann has to do some server stuff, bbl
60 2012-09-06T12:59:48 <hughperkins> The Free software foundation states "The Free Software Foundation (which holds the copyright of several notable GPL-licensed software products and of the license text itself) asserts that an executable which uses a dynamically linked library is indeed a derivative work. This does not however apply to separate programs communicating with one another.[43]"
61 2012-09-06T13:01:11 <hughperkins> We also have "Some people believe that while static linking produces derivative works, it is not clear whether an executable that dynamically links to a GPL code should be considered a derivative work (see Weak Copyleft). Linux author Linus Torvalds agrees that dynamic linking can create derived works but disagrees over the circumstances.[46]"
62 2012-09-06T13:01:25 <hughperkins> Basically, I think that in general:
63 2012-09-06T13:01:37 <hughperkins> - statically linking is widely considered to create a derivative work
64 2012-09-06T13:01:48 <hughperkins> - dynamically linking is somewaht considered to create a derivative work
65 2012-09-06T13:02:33 <hughperkins> - anything else is I think generally considered to be in the clear
66 2012-09-06T13:04:39 <hughperkins> Let's say this: from the wiki page, there is no clear-cut consensus over what is and isn't a derivative work, but as long as we are not linking dynamically or statically to two conflicting licensed works, then we are reasonably I think acting in good faith.
67 2012-09-06T13:08:18 <hughperkins> waldi, what is your opinion on work which are not linked dynamically or statically and which have connflicting licenses?
68 2012-09-06T13:13:13 <hughperkins> On another topic, from the EasyToDo list, what is the meaning of "subitems with index view"?
69 2012-09-06T13:15:08 <hughperkins> (logging off, but will check the logs)
70 2012-09-06T13:15:12 *** hughperkins
71 2012-09-06T13:15:39 *** greg_f
72 2012-09-06T13:25:00 <dreimark> re
73 2012-09-06T14:32:50 <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann: have you looked at unicode_literals future import as a way to fix unicode string problems?
74 2012-09-06T15:38:28 <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: yes. but i read some comments that it might cause more issues than solve such.
75 2012-09-06T15:38:58 <MaikuMori> Yeah, someone made some good points in SO question
76 2012-09-06T15:39:16 <MaikuMori> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/809796/any-gotchas-using-unicode-literals-in-python-2-6#827449
77 2012-09-06T15:39:26 <ThomasWaldmann> so, as long as we are only support py 2.x, we'll use the standard way
78 2012-09-06T15:42:28 <ThomasWaldmann> also that 6 points worth comment there seems to show something that we don't want
79 2012-09-06T15:43:16 <ThomasWaldmann> we are already working around that < 2.6.5 issue at some places, but if unicode is the default, it gets even more weird
80 2012-09-06T15:43:32 <MaikuMori> Yea I see.
81 2012-09-06T16:18:13 <dreimark> MaikuMori: have you looked on template inheritance for plugins ?
82 2012-09-06T16:18:30 <dreimark> e.g. if one wants to inherit from show.html
83 2012-09-06T16:47:01 *** dwcramer
84 2012-09-06T17:12:49 <MaikuMori> dreimark: not yet
85 2012-09-06T17:44:58 *** dwcramer
86 2012-09-06T17:48:46 *** hughperkins
87 2012-09-06T17:49:21 <hughperkins> Hey! So what are the next steps, and the timeframe, as far as validating acceptable usage of selenium within the moinmoin project?
88 2012-09-06T17:51:08 *** spy
89 2012-09-06T17:53:09 <spy> hello?
90 2012-09-06T17:53:10 <spy> anybody
91 2012-09-06T17:53:29 <spy> sorry, wrong window :)
92 2012-09-06T17:54:11 <hughperkins> hi
93 2012-09-06T17:55:09 <hughperkins> Saint Petersburg?
94 2012-09-06T17:55:32 <hughperkins> haha :-D
95 2012-09-06T17:56:04 <spy> ?
96 2012-09-06T17:57:06 *** dwcramer
97 2012-09-06T18:07:41 <dreimark> spy: ?
98 2012-09-06T18:08:34 <dreimark> bbl
99 2012-09-06T18:16:57 *** hughperkins
100 2012-09-06T18:18:31 *** ebo^
101 2012-09-06T18:52:34 *** dwcramer
102 2012-09-06T19:21:06 *** greg_f
103 2012-09-06T20:38:46 *** dwcramer
104 2012-09-06T21:12:35 *** brunomartin
105 2012-09-06T21:28:12 *** brunomartin
106 2012-09-06T22:21:17 *** dwcramer
107 2012-09-06T22:34:52 *** dwcramer
108 2012-09-06T22:46:28 *** dwcramer
109 2012-09-06T23:00:12 *** dwcramer
110 2012-09-06T23:14:05 * ThomasWaldmann looks at http://codereview.appspot.com/6498095/
111 2012-09-06T23:31:54 *** MattMaker
112 2012-09-06T23:35:53 *** spy
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