1 2011-04-15T00:05:38 *** RogerHaase
2 2011-04-15T01:42:21 *** tacianomm
3 2011-04-15T01:42:50 <tacianomm> Hey Thomas, are you there?
4 2011-04-15T01:52:35 *** tacianomm
5 2011-04-15T01:53:37 <ThomasWaldmann> wtf
6 2011-04-15T01:53:42 *** GrahamDumpleton
7 2011-04-15T01:54:23 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe we should to an IRC intro for IRC beginners :)
8 2011-04-15T01:54:40 *** GrahamDumpleton
9 2011-04-15T01:54:59 <ThomasWaldmann> like "ask directly what you want" and "stay there and wait for an answer"
10 2011-04-15T01:55:00 *** GrahamDumpleton
11 2011-04-15T01:55:12 <ThomasWaldmann> hi GrahamDumpleton :)
12 2011-04-15T01:55:33 <GrahamDumpleton> ThomasWaldmann: Hi, just the man I wanted.
13 2011-04-15T01:56:37 <GrahamDumpleton> ThomasWaldmann: How is 2.0 coming along? I was looking at using it as test bed for some stuff I am working on. Ie., provide installation of it to QA department as test application.
14 2011-04-15T01:57:09 <GrahamDumpleton> ThomasWaldmann: Me doing this might also be of great help to you guys as well as will give you a window into how it is performing.
15 2011-04-15T01:57:25 <GrahamDumpleton> ThomasWaldmann: If you don't know, I am working at www.newrelic.com now.
16 2011-04-15T02:29:15 <ThomasWaldmann> we are coming forwards, but slowly
17 2011-04-15T02:32:18 <ThomasWaldmann> if you want to help testing it, that's welcome
18 2011-04-15T02:32:32 <ThomasWaldmann> just don't expect production stability from it right now :)
19 2011-04-15T02:32:37 <ThomasWaldmann> GrahamDumpleton:
20 2011-04-15T02:33:31 <GrahamDumpleton> I need something to check my instrumentation anyway and MoinMoin is one the few large standalone apps one can get done in Python, the others being Trad and Plone.
21 2011-04-15T02:33:46 <GrahamDumpleton> s/Trad/Trac/
22 2011-04-15T02:34:07 <ThomasWaldmann> about performance: startup performance in default configuration is rather slow (if one disables load_xml and rebuild_index it gets better)
23 2011-04-15T02:34:38 <ThomasWaldmann> once started, performance should be better than moin 1.x
24 2011-04-15T02:35:29 <GrahamDumpleton> Anyway, may have a stab at it today. Will send you some pretty pictures later perhaps. :-)
25 2011-04-15T02:35:51 <ThomasWaldmann> even memory usage is better than in 1.x
26 2011-04-15T02:36:09 <ThomasWaldmann> not for the tests though, they suck quite a lot
27 2011-04-15T02:36:10 <GrahamDumpleton> Is installation simpler/harder?
28 2011-04-15T02:36:22 <ThomasWaldmann> depends on what you expect :)
29 2011-04-15T02:36:40 <ThomasWaldmann> there's a quickinstall script that does about everything needed
30 2011-04-15T02:37:08 <ThomasWaldmann> we don't do bundling any more though, so it'll pull everything in using setuptools/pip/whatever
31 2011-04-15T02:37:25 <GrahamDumpleton> It might have been because was trying to use mod_wsgi and wasn't well documented at time, but couple of years back, found myself having to read the code to work out what I needed to do.
32 2011-04-15T02:37:44 <ThomasWaldmann> it's a flask app now
33 2011-04-15T02:37:54 <ThomasWaldmann> see MoinMoin.app
34 2011-04-15T02:38:04 <GrahamDumpleton> Oh, I thought it was on top of Werkzeug and not Flask.
35 2011-04-15T02:38:10 <ThomasWaldmann> lots of pocoo stuff in action
36 2011-04-15T02:38:24 <ThomasWaldmann> flask, werkzeug, pygments
37 2011-04-15T02:38:38 <GrahamDumpleton> I have already instrumented for Flask/jinja2 so should give interesting results straight up.
38 2011-04-15T02:38:40 <ThomasWaldmann> some flask extensions for caching, themes, babel
39 2011-04-15T02:38:54 <ThomasWaldmann> we outsourced a lot
40 2011-04-15T02:39:01 <GrahamDumpleton> Then the interesting bit might be to do Moin specific instrumentation on Moin plugin entry points.
41 2011-04-15T02:39:17 <GrahamDumpleton> That way you see what plugins suck.
42 2011-04-15T02:39:31 <ThomasWaldmann> not much pluggy stuff in there right now
43 2011-04-15T02:39:50 <ThomasWaldmann> in fact, we are still searching for a great plugin system
44 2011-04-15T02:40:30 <ThomasWaldmann> for a few parts, it internally is maybe using still the old plugin system, but not in the extent as moin 1.9 was doing it
45 2011-04-15T02:40:43 <GrahamDumpleton> is the builtin web server the Flask/Werkzeug one?
46 2011-04-15T02:40:48 <ThomasWaldmann> yes
47 2011-04-15T02:41:15 <ThomasWaldmann> after installing it into virtual env, just call "moin" and it'll be up and running
48 2011-04-15T02:41:19 <GrahamDumpleton> Is there a precanned WSGI script file, ot do I need to create my own.
49 2011-04-15T02:41:36 <GrahamDumpleton> Cool there is.
50 2011-04-15T02:41:56 <ThomasWaldmann> moin-2.0/docs/examples/deployment
51 2011-04-15T02:42:03 <ThomasWaldmann> sphinx docs btw :)
52 2011-04-15T02:42:20 <GrahamDumpleton> I was looking at http://static.moinmo.in/m2/html/admin/serve.html#builtin-web-server-easy
53 2011-04-15T02:42:37 <ThomasWaldmann> there are some basics and links on http://moinmo.in/MoinMoin2.0
54 2011-04-15T02:43:00 <GrahamDumpleton> Anyway, am sure I will work it out. :-)
55 2011-04-15T02:43:15 <ThomasWaldmann> yes, that is for the werkzeug/stdlib http server
56 2011-04-15T02:43:51 <ThomasWaldmann> moin.wsgi should hopefully work for mod_wsgi
57 2011-04-15T02:44:18 <ThomasWaldmann> usually we use the builtin web server for development though
58 2011-04-15T02:44:30 <GrahamDumpleton> I might actually use gunicorn, so just need to adapt that (rename it) so can use as module.
59 2011-04-15T02:44:48 <GrahamDumpleton> I just need access to the WSGI application entry point so I can wrap it.
60 2011-04-15T02:45:02 <ThomasWaldmann> create_app()
61 2011-04-15T02:45:06 <GrahamDumpleton> With internal development servers that usually means I have to hack the actual application istelf rather than separate script file.
62 2011-04-15T02:45:14 <ThomasWaldmann> as seen in the flask docs :)
63 2011-04-15T02:46:47 <GrahamDumpleton> quickinstall fails on a Mac because there is no wget, only curl.
64 2011-04-15T02:46:47 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, be careful with werkzeug, the ==dev stuff on pypi is broken
65 2011-04-15T02:47:35 <ThomasWaldmann> oh. yeah, we didn't test on mac. but the only time this is used is to download the static file packages.
66 2011-04-15T02:48:31 <ThomasWaldmann> i am not satisfied with that lowlevel hack, but as long as one can not require such stuff in a sane way in setup.py and one also does not use OS packaging, there's not much choice
67 2011-04-15T02:49:11 <ThomasWaldmann> i had some thoughts about static file packaging for pypi, but noone wanted to implement it yet. :D
68 2011-04-15T02:50:32 <GrahamDumpleton> I'll have a go at modifying the script for you to auto detect curl/wget. :-)
69 2011-04-15T02:50:32 <ThomasWaldmann> (of course one could rewrite that quickinstall hack to be a quickinstall.py hack, but something cleaner would be nice imho)
70 2011-04-15T02:53:20 <ThomasWaldmann> patches welcome :)
71 2011-04-15T02:54:43 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, if you want something that leaks a bit, rather use moin 1.x :D
72 2011-04-15T02:55:11 <ThomasWaldmann> (if the point is to test your stuff whether it finds the leaking)
73 2011-04-15T02:55:21 <GrahamDumpleton> I specially wanted 2.0 because of it using Werkzeug/Jinja2. That also uses Flask is a bonus.
74 2011-04-15T02:57:30 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, there's a SOC project application about adding whoosh as search engine (currently there's none in moin2)
75 2011-04-15T02:57:50 *** yufra
76 2011-04-15T02:59:10 <ThomasWaldmann> looks like you're expanding newrelics field to python, they don't advertise it yet
77 2011-04-15T02:59:34 <GrahamDumpleton> Word is getting out. Something more official being said soon.
78 2011-04-15T03:00:06 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, some moin responses will depend on werkzeug version
79 2011-04-15T03:00:30 <ThomasWaldmann> to avoid the ==dev troubles, setup.py currently requires ==0.6.2 release
80 2011-04-15T03:01:06 <ThomasWaldmann> it works better with 0.7dev, but getting that automatically installed is currently a pain or broken
81 2011-04-15T03:01:59 <ThomasWaldmann> that affect some responses. iirc 304 stuff, cache lifetime etc.
82 2011-04-15T03:02:52 <GrahamDumpleton> curl: (6) Couldn't resolve host 'download.cksource.com'
83 2011-04-15T03:02:52 <GrahamDumpleton> tar: Error opening archive: Failed to open 'env/ckeditor.tgz': No such file or directory
84 2011-04-15T03:03:07 <ThomasWaldmann> oops
85 2011-04-15T03:03:53 <ThomasWaldmann> $ host download.cksource.com
86 2011-04-15T03:03:53 <ThomasWaldmann> download.cksource.com has address 208.75.149.39
87 2011-04-15T03:04:33 <GrahamDumpleton> nslookup resolves here, might just be a temporary glitch.
88 2011-04-15T03:04:43 <ThomasWaldmann> australian dns seems to be ... special :D
89 2011-04-15T03:04:49 <GrahamDumpleton> Can I just remove the 'env' directory and start over.
90 2011-04-15T03:05:12 <ThomasWaldmann> sure, it'll fetch all again then if you run quickinstall
91 2011-04-15T03:05:15 <GrahamDumpleton> Yep, in .htignore.
92 2011-04-15T03:05:53 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe I'll move that env/ to be ../moin2-env or something
93 2011-04-15T03:07:49 <ThomasWaldmann> $ host download.cksource.com
94 2011-04-15T03:07:49 <ThomasWaldmann> download.cksource.com has address 208.75.149.39
95 2011-04-15T03:07:49 <ThomasWaldmann> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
96 2011-04-15T03:07:56 <ThomasWaldmann> hmm
97 2011-04-15T03:09:37 <ThomasWaldmann> great. 2 of the 3 of their authoritative name servers do not respond :|
98 2011-04-15T03:11:41 <ThomasWaldmann> NameCheap, Inc
99 2011-04-15T03:11:44 <ThomasWaldmann> hah!
100 2011-04-15T03:14:56 <GrahamDumpleton> This URL doesn't seem to fetch anything http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/anywikidraw/anywikidraw/anywikidraw-0.14/anywikidraw-0.14.zip?use_mirror=ignum
101 2011-04-15T03:15:00 <GrahamDumpleton> Looking at why now.
102 2011-04-15T03:15:46 <GrahamDumpleton> Maybe have to use the direct link and not their fancy redirecting page.
103 2011-04-15T03:15:57 <ThomasWaldmann> works from here
104 2011-04-15T03:16:09 <GrahamDumpleton> Curl doesn't like it then.
105 2011-04-15T03:16:22 <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, i used wget
106 2011-04-15T03:16:43 <ThomasWaldmann> there's no wget for os x?
107 2011-04-15T03:17:17 <GrahamDumpleton> Trying with -L option which tells it to follow redirects.
108 2011-04-15T03:17:28 <GrahamDumpleton> Yep, that works.
109 2011-04-15T03:25:45 <GrahamDumpleton> Trying to start it now.
110 2011-04-15T03:26:32 <GrahamDumpleton> It lives.
111 2011-04-15T03:26:44 <GrahamDumpleton> Now to add my instrumentation hook.
112 2011-04-15T03:27:07 *** cosmo_
113 2011-04-15T03:28:32 <ThomasWaldmann> "They live!" :D
114 2011-04-15T03:31:41 *** cosmo
115 2011-04-15T03:31:52 <GrahamDumpleton> Is script/__init__.py what bin/moin uses?
116 2011-04-15T03:34:52 <ThomasWaldmann> yes
117 2011-04-15T03:35:42 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, there was a recent suggestion on the werkzeug tracker to increase queue length of the wz/py http server
118 2011-04-15T03:36:55 <ThomasWaldmann> https://github.com/mitsuhiko/werkzeug/issues/47
119 2011-04-15T03:37:54 <GrahamDumpleton> Its reporting data. :-)
120 2011-04-15T03:38:08 <GrahamDumpleton> It is quick. But then machines were so much slower last time I tried.
121 2011-04-15T03:40:09 <ThomasWaldmann> currently it seems to spend a lot time rendering the templates
122 2011-04-15T03:40:37 <GrahamDumpleton> Maybe, maybe not. See http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22571016/SafariScreenSnapz010.gif
123 2011-04-15T03:41:06 <GrahamDumpleton> Half the time in show_item after database queries.
124 2011-04-15T03:41:24 <GrahamDumpleton> This was on a slow transaction though so could have been an anomoly.
125 2011-04-15T03:42:01 <GrahamDumpleton> Is the picture nice or what though. I am so pleased it showed something straight up. :-)
126 2011-04-15T03:42:34 <GrahamDumpleton> Actually, the delay is in middle of database queries.
127 2011-04-15T03:43:57 <ThomasWaldmann> i have troubles understanding that grey bar in line 3
128 2011-04-15T03:44:17 <ThomasWaldmann> i think it should summarize the stuff shown below
129 2011-04-15T03:44:28 <ThomasWaldmann> but somehow it is not the sum of the pieces
130 2011-04-15T03:44:50 <GrahamDumpleton> The dark grey is where the show_item() itself was doing work, or it is calling out to other functions which aren't specifically instrumented.
131 2011-04-15T03:45:12 <GrahamDumpleton> Or do you mean the whole bar.
132 2011-04-15T03:45:47 <GrahamDumpleton> The light grey bit is summary of sub calls below that line which were tracked.
133 2011-04-15T03:45:58 <ThomasWaldmann> no, the dark grey
134 2011-04-15T03:46:37 <GrahamDumpleton> Which is where one would start looking at what show_item is doing. I'll have a little look and see what I find.
135 2011-04-15T03:46:38 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe it is fetching the item from storage there and running it through dom conversion pipe
136 2011-04-15T03:47:19 <GrahamDumpleton> And this is where I need to get across other significant things that need to be tracked and display because it is important.
137 2011-04-15T03:47:39 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe those rows should use slightly alternating bgcol
138 2011-04-15T03:47:53 <GrahamDumpleton> While I dig, another trace at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22571016/SafariScreenSnapz009.gif
139 2011-04-15T03:48:20 <GrahamDumpleton> They are intending to rewrite that web page. Bit worried though they are going to get rid of the timeline and just do it as a table.
140 2011-04-15T03:49:46 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe only profile 2nd access to some view
141 2011-04-15T03:49:54 <GrahamDumpleton> BTW, any funnies could just be my machine. Seems that sometimes it just hangs, could be my SSD drive.
142 2011-04-15T03:49:55 <ThomasWaldmann> first access compiles templates
143 2011-04-15T03:53:23 <GrahamDumpleton> BTW, my quickly modified quickinstall script at http://paste.pocoo.org/show/371927/
144 2011-04-15T03:55:24 <ThomasWaldmann> ah, nice
145 2011-04-15T03:55:58 <GrahamDumpleton> Definitely just my box. show_item is usually fast. As only track slow requests, only shows the odd ones up. Another example has delay elsewhere http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22571016/SafariScreenSnapz011.gif
146 2011-04-15T03:57:18 <ThomasWaldmann> hm, strange
147 2011-04-15T03:58:11 <ThomasWaldmann> but iirc i sometimes had strange hangs with my previous notebook+flash also
148 2011-04-15T03:58:28 <GrahamDumpleton> You see what is normal better in http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22571016/SafariScreenSnapz012.gif Here you see the averages over a 100 requests much more sane.
149 2011-04-15T03:58:30 <ThomasWaldmann> it was a very cheap flash, CF 8GB, though :)
150 2011-04-15T03:59:01 <GrahamDumpleton> Could also be MacOSX. Even on my older HD based systems it would hang. COuld be my DNS at home also.
151 2011-04-15T04:04:18 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, great stuff. looking forward to more results. :)
152 2011-04-15T04:04:41 <ThomasWaldmann> but anyway, I have to get a bit sleep now |-)
153 2011-04-15T04:04:56 <GrahamDumpleton> Okay. Good night.
154 2011-04-15T04:05:06 <ThomasWaldmann> thanks and have a nice day :)
155 2011-04-15T04:11:21 *** Marchael
156 2011-04-15T04:32:48 *** Marchael
157 2011-04-15T05:04:28 *** m4k3r
158 2011-04-15T05:22:01 *** GrahamDumpleton
159 2011-04-15T05:38:27 *** Marchael
160 2011-04-15T05:39:18 *** Marchael
161 2011-04-15T05:54:45 *** m4k3r
162 2011-04-15T05:56:47 *** Marchael
163 2011-04-15T06:13:59 *** Marchael
164 2011-04-15T06:32:57 *** Marchael
165 2011-04-15T07:13:00 <Marchael> moin
166 2011-04-15T07:30:10 *** andialbrecht_
167 2011-04-15T08:34:51 <xorAxAx> ugh, 490 unread mails on the soc list
168 2011-04-15T09:26:32 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
169 2011-04-15T09:45:20 <ThomasWaldmann> Marchael: subject and timestamp of the mail you are referring to?
170 2011-04-15T09:46:41 <Marchael> ThomasWaldmann: no, I sent you a message via IRC
171 2011-04-15T09:47:22 <Marchael> or what you meant?
172 2011-04-15T10:56:39 *** ronny
173 2011-04-15T11:16:03 *** Marchael
174 2011-04-15T12:38:27 *** Marchael
175 2011-04-15T12:39:32 *** greg_f
176 2011-04-15T13:37:35 *** andialbrecht
177 2011-04-15T14:31:07 *** m4k3r
178 2011-04-15T15:04:36 * ThomasWaldmann changed the temporary mentor assignment to a preliminary mentor assignment
179 2011-04-15T17:00:26 *** Marchael
180 2011-04-15T17:00:32 *** Marchael
181 2011-04-15T17:12:41 *** Marchael
182 2011-04-15T17:14:33 *** waldi_
183 2011-04-15T17:34:27 *** m4k3r
184 2011-04-15T17:35:07 *** m4k3r
185 2011-04-15T19:26:58 *** MattMaker_
186 2011-04-15T19:27:28 *** MattMaker
187 2011-04-15T19:27:28 *** MattMaker_
188 2011-04-15T19:44:02 *** MattMaker
189 2011-04-15T19:49:58 *** greg_f
190 2011-04-15T19:59:49 *** cosmo
191 2011-04-15T20:00:06 *** cosmo
192 2011-04-15T21:03:27 *** MattMaker
193 2011-04-15T22:22:29 *** MattMaker
194 2011-04-15T22:27:07 *** andialbrecht_
195 2011-04-15T22:27:22 *** andialbrecht
196 2011-04-15T22:43:49 *** MattMaker
197 2011-04-15T23:07:55 <ThomasWaldmann> re
198 2011-04-15T23:16:56 *** m4k3r
199
