1 2010-03-29T00:21:59 *** grzywacz
2 2010-03-29T01:02:11 *** digitalcoconut
3 2010-03-29T02:35:19 *** digitalcoconut
4 2010-03-29T08:11:29 *** mrht
5 2010-03-29T08:11:30 *** dreimark
6 2010-03-29T08:11:30 *** waldi
7 2010-03-29T08:11:31 *** franklin_
8 2010-03-29T08:11:31 *** CIA-55
9 2010-03-29T08:11:33 *** xjjk
10 2010-03-29T08:11:34 *** vpv
11 2010-03-29T08:29:55 *** xjjk
12 2010-03-29T08:29:55 *** franklin_
13 2010-03-29T08:29:55 *** vpv
14 2010-03-29T08:29:55 *** mrht
15 2010-03-29T08:29:55 *** CIA-55
16 2010-03-29T08:29:55 *** waldi
17 2010-03-29T08:29:55 *** dreimark
18 2010-03-29T10:56:47 *** ronny_
19 2010-03-29T11:13:05 <dreimark> moin
20 2010-03-29T11:13:28 <dreimark> hi, any idea why in 1.8 sometimes pragmas don't be processed?
21 2010-03-29T11:13:37 <dreimark> btw. no problem in 1.9
22 2010-03-29T11:24:14 <dreimark> modified SlideShow action for 1.8 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/195133/ (for the last talk before I upgrade)
23 2010-03-29T11:24:34 <dreimark> I have no idea why that line is needed Page(self.request, self.page.page_name).parse_processing_instructions()
24 2010-03-29T11:25:53 <dreimark> (if i debug with eclipse that code i always have these pragmas readed without that line)
25 2010-03-29T14:08:15 *** valeuf
26 2010-03-29T14:14:13 <valeuf> I got an idea for a feature related to the export function (like docbook formatter), it could be nice to be able to export different wikipages in one docbook document (ore one HTML page ...).
27 2010-03-29T14:16:18 <valeuf> I checked code seems to be not possible at this time, but I think it is not so big change to implement this
28 2010-03-29T14:23:43 <dreimark> valeuf: http://moinmo.in/4ct10n/raw/MoinMoinTalks/pyCologne-2009-09-09/csv?mimetype=text%2Fcsv&action=raw
29 2010-03-29T14:24:15 <dreimark> something like this? but for more than one page/item ?
30 2010-03-29T14:25:41 <valeuf> for example yes
31 2010-03-29T14:26:22 <valeuf> actually the converter2 class and the old formatter can just handle one page to render it into another format
32 2010-03-29T14:27:38 <valeuf> I'd like to find a solution to re-design a little bit the converter, or maybe another class up to the converter to render different page into one document
33 2010-03-29T14:27:47 <valeuf> a little bit like the include macro does
34 2010-03-29T14:28:42 <dreimark> may be have a look at the http://moinmo.in/ActionMarket/PdfAction plugin
35 2010-03-29T14:29:21 <dreimark> for what a regular user wants to control
36 2010-03-29T14:33:43 <valeuf> actually, I think the PdfAction does not handle multiple pages
37 2010-03-29T14:33:54 <dreimark> that is true
38 2010-03-29T14:33:55 <valeuf> I mean different WikiPage
39 2010-03-29T14:34:20 <valeuf> in moin 1.9 to render a WikiPage in a different format you should use the Formatter
40 2010-03-29T14:34:41 <valeuf> which can handle juste one WikiPage
41 2010-03-29T14:38:50 <valeuf> in moin2, it seems that we can still use the Formatter class, but after the conversion will be done with a Converter object
42 2010-03-29T14:39:24 <valeuf> but sitll with one page, so the idea would be to change a little bit how is working Formatter, to be able to give a list of pages to render in one document
43 2010-03-29T14:39:42 <valeuf> after, we can design different different User Interface to use this feature
44 2010-03-29T14:40:08 <valeuf> like a special wikipage where you can select different page and then render it into one document
45 2010-03-29T14:41:46 <valeuf> we can also imagine that we can decide to render all the subpage of a page
46 2010-03-29T14:42:18 <valeuf> like /MyProject/Presentation MyProject/InitialRequirement /MyProject/FinalReport ..., if you render with a special option an html file form MyProject, you will get all the subpages
47 2010-03-29T14:52:35 <dreimark> in moin 2.0 we don't have pages we have items
48 2010-03-29T14:53:31 <dreimark> there is no separation for attachments and pages as we have in 1.9
49 2010-03-29T14:55:14 <dreimark> valeuf: can't that archieved by having one item which includes other items
50 2010-03-29T14:55:25 <dreimark> and this is then formatted?
51 2010-03-29T14:55:33 * valeuf is reading carefully the new Formatter class with text_html.py example
52 2010-03-29T14:56:44 <valeuf> dreimark: naturally, the solution to handle this problem is to use the Include Macro at this time
53 2010-03-29T14:57:13 <valeuf> dreimark: but it means that the user create a page, include all the page he wants to render, and then export this page
54 2010-03-29T14:57:50 <valeuf> dreimark: I see what you mean by the fact that moin2 is considering everything as item
55 2010-03-29T14:58:08 <dreimark> well the user may be wants to repeat that later again, the info must be somewhere
56 2010-03-29T14:58:33 <dreimark> stored
57 2010-03-29T14:59:07 <valeuf> dreimark: that's right
58 2010-03-29T14:59:50 <valeuf> dreimark: well in this case, just some option to render a Group of page, or all the pages of a category can be interesting
59 2010-03-29T15:00:55 <dreimark> yes but if it is a dictionary somehow we need to have an order
60 2010-03-29T15:01:56 <dreimark> brb
61 2010-03-29T15:02:32 <valeuf> dreimark: that's just a matter of UI to let the User arrange the order
62 2010-03-29T15:06:25 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
63 2010-03-29T15:08:51 <ThomasWaldmann> valeuf: parsers/formatters are 1.x features, for moin2 it is converter2 package
64 2010-03-29T15:09:03 <valeuf> yep it is what I am trying to figure aut
65 2010-03-29T15:09:05 <valeuf> *out
66 2010-03-29T15:09:16 <valeuf> but you will not keep at all the Formatter ?
67 2010-03-29T15:09:34 <valeuf> the export function will directly call the Converter ?
68 2010-03-29T15:10:15 <ThomasWaldmann> well, the reason why we work on converter2 is because formatter is not good enough
69 2010-03-29T15:10:46 <ThomasWaldmann> so, in the end, i guess we rather want to get rid of that
70 2010-03-29T15:10:50 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: yep the new apporach with a DOM tree, and a set of converter seems to be much more powerful
71 2010-03-29T15:11:09 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: but I thought you could keep the Formatter, which would could the Converter under
72 2010-03-29T15:11:44 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: but this is maybe useless, if you do not care so much of the compatibility with moin1.9
73 2010-03-29T15:12:59 <ThomasWaldmann> there are so many changes in moin2, that lots of code have to be rewritten anyway
74 2010-03-29T15:13:54 <valeuf> yep, this is actually a little bit confusing for me to understand what code is part of moin2, and what should be re-written
75 2010-03-29T15:14:19 <valeuf> But I understand more about the converter these last days
76 2010-03-29T15:14:52 <ThomasWaldmann> if you do something in the area of converters, it should be a converter and not depend on moin 1.x parsers or formatters
77 2010-03-29T15:15:02 <valeuf> the schema from this page http://moinmo.in/MoinDev/WikiDom helped me a lot
78 2010-03-29T15:15:19 <valeuf> I hope it is still up to date !! (or not completely wrong)
79 2010-03-29T15:15:19 <ThomasWaldmann> and include will then get much easier btw. :)
80 2010-03-29T15:15:38 <ThomasWaldmann> the moin 1.x include/toc is total crap
81 2010-03-29T15:15:41 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: yep, if it is just matter of adding node to the list, it becomes much easier
82 2010-03-29T15:18:34 <valeuf> compare to moin1.x where the Formatter is a long list of method for each object of the syntax
83 2010-03-29T15:19:05 <valeuf> the new converter with the list of node, which you can convert one after one, it is much more elegant !
84 2010-03-29T15:24:09 <ThomasWaldmann> yes, and it can be more reusable also
85 2010-03-29T15:24:41 <ThomasWaldmann> e.g. the include converter can likely be used by all sorts of input converters
86 2010-03-29T15:25:19 <ThomasWaldmann> (and likely the same for links, macros, etc.)
87 2010-03-29T15:27:01 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: what the current state of plugin like TWikiDraw ?
88 2010-03-29T15:27:08 <valeuf> http://moinmo.in/OliverGraf/TWikiDrawPlugin seems to be pretty old
89 2010-03-29T15:27:40 <ThomasWaldmann> well, in 1.9 we have twikidraw, anywikidraw
90 2010-03-29T15:28:00 <valeuf> DocBook support SVG (not officially, but many software are using the draft document as a reference)
91 2010-03-29T15:28:18 <valeuf> with the new Dom tree, it should be easy to add the SVG tree in to the Docbook document ^ ^
92 2010-03-29T15:28:28 <ThomasWaldmann> svg stuff is welcome for moin2
93 2010-03-29T15:28:38 <valeuf> (and with the same way MathML )
94 2010-03-29T15:29:10 <ThomasWaldmann> in general, priority for moin2 should be the stuff that is needed for basic operation
95 2010-03-29T15:29:28 <valeuf> yep
96 2010-03-29T15:29:50 <ThomasWaldmann> that may include docbook or not
97 2010-03-29T15:30:37 <ThomasWaldmann> (the general problem with docbook stuff is that it needs to be continually used and maintained, that was not the case in the past)
98 2010-03-29T15:31:05 <valeuf> about this, I saw that you want to implement a Template Engine for moin2
99 2010-03-29T15:31:16 <valeuf> (you are talking about Jinja2)
100 2010-03-29T15:31:25 <ThomasWaldmann> quite some people wanted to use docbook, but noone continually maintained it
101 2010-03-29T15:31:57 <ThomasWaldmann> moin2 already uses j2 at some places, mostly for content rendering of some actions
102 2010-03-29T15:32:16 <ThomasWaldmann> it doesn't use it for theme yet, though
103 2010-03-29T15:32:43 <valeuf> personally, I am using this feature regularly, and I would not move on moin2 if there is not a good DocBook support, but I can easily imagine that most of people are not using it ^ ^
104 2010-03-29T15:33:47 <dreimark> valeuf: i am also interested in it from the scope of an user
105 2010-03-29T15:33:57 <valeuf> I do not know specially Jinja2 but I used different template engine previously, it is another interesting task for me
106 2010-03-29T15:34:02 <ThomasWaldmann> if, in the end, it has some stuff that book or in general documentation authors need, that would be very useful
107 2010-03-29T15:34:20 <dreimark> I would expect someone working on docbook that the stays longer in our community than only for the soc project
108 2010-03-29T15:34:31 <dreimark> s/the/he/
109 2010-03-29T15:34:57 <valeuf> because the theming stuffs in moin1.x is quite ... weird :) I think that using a template engine would probably encouraged people to create more theme
110 2010-03-29T15:35:13 <ThomasWaldmann> yes, maybe
111 2010-03-29T15:35:27 <ThomasWaldmann> otoh, noone jumped on theming with j2 yet
112 2010-03-29T15:36:00 <ThomasWaldmann> although quite some people were unhappy with the old way and demanded a template engine based theming
113 2010-03-29T15:36:05 <valeuf> dreimark: well, I am naturally interest in the SoC because this is a nice opportunity to make a nice job during the summer, instead of working in manufactory to get money, but at the first I started to work on DorBook because I need it !
114 2010-03-29T15:36:09 <valeuf> *DocBook
115 2010-03-29T15:36:45 <valeuf> dreimark: So I think that as long I am a MoinMoin user, I will hack Docbook stuffs, at least for my needs !
116 2010-03-29T15:37:10 <ThomasWaldmann> that sounds like progress compared to current state :)
117 2010-03-29T15:37:26 * dreimark agrees
118 2010-03-29T15:37:30 <ThomasWaldmann> do you run a moin wiki personally?
119 2010-03-29T15:37:49 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: sure :)
120 2010-03-29T15:38:08 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: http://wiki.valeuf.org/wiki.cgi/
121 2010-03-29T15:38:51 <valeuf> I am typically using Docbook to render this kind of Document http://wiki.valeuf.org/wiki.cgi/ST40/Report
122 2010-03-29T15:39:35 <dreimark> valeuf: this one is protected
123 2010-03-29T15:41:16 <valeuf> dreimark: weird :s
124 2010-03-29T15:45:25 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, why do you want to start with html->dom?
125 2010-03-29T15:45:39 <valeuf> ah I confused acl_hierarchic option for different wiki of my farm :s !!
126 2010-03-29T15:45:42 <valeuf> sorry
127 2010-03-29T15:45:59 <valeuf> http://wiki.valeuf.org/wiki.cgi/ST40/Report should work now :)
128 2010-03-29T15:47:10 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: yep I am interested in, however, I wan to be useful for MoinMoin, I can do the Docbook stuff after the SoC if you think that there is something more important
129 2010-03-29T15:49:33 <ThomasWaldmann> well, yeah, i guess any order has pros and cons
130 2010-03-29T15:51:07 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, there is quite some time in the community binding phase, when you can talk to community while playing with the code :)
131 2010-03-29T15:51:28 <ThomasWaldmann> (and reading stuff)
132 2010-03-29T15:52:11 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: I crawled deeply in MoinMoin wiki this last week-end ^ ^ I read all the pages about the latest SoC
133 2010-03-29T15:53:02 <ThomasWaldmann> effort on docs is a great idea :)
134 2010-03-29T15:53:43 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: yep, I have really hard time to find answer to my question in the MoinMoin wiki, so I would like try to write good documentation,
135 2010-03-29T15:54:27 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: it will be a good exercise for me, during my last internship, and at the university, we never write documentation !
136 2010-03-29T15:54:35 <valeuf> it is quite disaster !
137 2010-03-29T15:54:47 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe more docs IN the code would be good, so it maybe stays more in sync
138 2010-03-29T15:57:08 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: especially to generate nice epyDoc document
139 2010-03-29T16:02:09 <ThomasWaldmann> yeah. or maybe switch to sphinx if enough devs are interested.
140 2010-03-29T16:03:33 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: I used sphinx for a previous project, I should say it is really nice
141 2010-03-29T16:03:54 <valeuf> it is really convenient to use it
142 2010-03-29T16:04:38 <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, yet another nice pocoo project :)
143 2010-03-29T16:05:07 <ThomasWaldmann> i just think we would have to change our docstrings a lot, right?
144 2010-03-29T16:05:12 <valeuf> like Jinja2 ^ ^ I am currently reading the documentation, this looks really elegant
145 2010-03-29T16:05:43 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: if I remember well I think there is some way to define a template for the docstring recognized by sphinx
146 2010-03-29T16:05:49 <valeuf> but I am not 100% sure
147 2010-03-29T16:08:46 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: I am wrong, this actually a little bit more complicate ! there is an API to do this kind of things (like re-using a documentation made by EpyDoc)
148 2010-03-29T16:10:20 <ThomasWaldmann> well, i don't think I want to use epydoc AND sphinx
149 2010-03-29T16:10:29 <ThomasWaldmann> epydoc sometimes is a bit of a pain
150 2010-03-29T16:11:00 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: yes, this is quite useless :) if MoinMoin move to Sphynx, this is better to only use this tool
151 2010-03-29T16:11:36 <ThomasWaldmann> the question is more whether sphinx can be easily made happy with our current docstrings
152 2010-03-29T16:11:55 <ThomasWaldmann> or whether we need to rewrite them all to make sphinx happy
153 2010-03-29T16:14:34 <ThomasWaldmann> i guess birkenfeld can answer all that easily :)
154 2010-03-29T16:15:36 <ThomasWaldmann> valeuf: about timing, did you check that with waldi?
155 2010-03-29T16:15:49 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: not yet
156 2010-03-29T16:16:08 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: if you are refering to my application draft in my wiki, this is really just a draft
157 2010-03-29T16:16:45 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: I wanted to read code and documentation to understand well the task before talking to waldi
158 2010-03-29T16:17:16 <valeuf> so I will try to talk to him tonight or tomorrow, when he will be free
159 2010-03-29T16:22:01 <ThomasWaldmann> you also may want to look at the DeveloperApplicationTemplate
160 2010-03-29T16:22:22 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: yep, I used it as a kind of model for my application
161 2010-03-29T16:22:37 <ThomasWaldmann> the project part maybe should be a bit more detailled
162 2010-03-29T16:23:01 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: ok, thanks for the tip, I will improve this before I submit
163 2010-03-29T16:23:26 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: I made two small patch for DocBook support in MoinMoin, I will also list this
164 2010-03-29T16:24:10 <ThomasWaldmann> yes, links to own FOSS stuff are very welcome (repo links preferred)
165 2010-03-29T16:25:13 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: well, I do not have big experience with FOSS project actually... this one bad point about my application
166 2010-03-29T16:25:33 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: my only one experience has been with OpenOffice.org and it did work out well
167 2010-03-29T16:27:20 <ThomasWaldmann> it did or it did not?
168 2010-03-29T16:27:41 <valeuf> *did not
169 2010-03-29T16:27:42 <valeuf> sorry
170 2010-03-29T16:28:10 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, no problem
171 2010-03-29T16:28:23 <valeuf> OpenOffice.org was quite a big project, the professor Bachard was supposed to help me, but he was not really helpful !
172 2010-03-29T16:29:00 * ThomasWaldmann had a short quick look into OOo code a while ago and well... X)
173 2010-03-29T16:29:58 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: the problem was that I was one of his student in programing class about C language, and I was quite good, so he proposed me to join the Education project at OOo to work about the Mac port
174 2010-03-29T16:30:12 <valeuf> most of the code was in Obj-C which I did not know at all,
175 2010-03-29T16:30:34 <valeuf> but he was always saying : this is like C ... this is like C you will not have problem !!
176 2010-03-29T16:30:36 <ThomasWaldmann> (we are usually asking for some own code, but that's rather for some first impression, we rely more on interview/coding test meanwhile)
177 2010-03-29T16:31:04 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: I have same small Django Project
178 2010-03-29T16:31:48 <ThomasWaldmann> link >> appl
179 2010-03-29T16:31:59 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: ok :)
180 2010-03-29T16:33:06 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: I can give you an access to the repository of the project I worked for during my latest internship, but this is closed-source ... so it is probably not interesting for you !
181 2010-03-29T16:33:54 <ThomasWaldmann> python?
182 2010-03-29T16:34:00 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: no ... C++
183 2010-03-29T16:34:13 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: there is just some script in Python I wrote to help some tasks
184 2010-03-29T16:34:16 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, not that much interesting in our context
185 2010-03-29T16:34:39 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: we was using inline data for the game, I wrote a script to generate the C++ code for the inline data
186 2010-03-29T16:38:05 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: you have many candidates for the SoC usually ?
187 2010-03-29T16:39:26 <dreimark> valeuf: we usually have more than we can mentor
188 2010-03-29T16:39:32 <ThomasWaldmann> about 2-3 times the number of slots
189 2010-03-29T16:39:44 <valeuf> :)
190 2010-03-29T16:40:18 <ThomasWaldmann> but usually, after ranking it is quite ok
191 2010-03-29T16:41:04 <valeuf> btw, thanks for the help !
192 2010-03-29T16:44:11 <ThomasWaldmann> you're welcome :)
193 2010-03-29T16:44:59 <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep: wtfpl? :)
194 2010-03-29T16:46:17 <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: mu
195 2010-03-29T16:46:51 <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: people who insist on attaching a license to every rock and tree annoy me
196 2010-03-29T16:47:17 <TheSheep> especially since that code won't work on anything else than moin
197 2010-03-29T16:47:42 <TheSheep> so it would be pointless to publish it on any license not compatible with moin
198 2010-03-29T16:48:21 <ThomasWaldmann> well, the problem is (that at least in germany) the "default license" is restrictive
199 2010-03-29T16:48:44 <ThomasWaldmann> it would be all much easier if the default was something like public domain
200 2010-03-29T16:53:34 <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, shall we add "students interested: (list of names)" to the project ideas?
201 2010-03-29T16:54:16 <ThomasWaldmann> could be maybe useful, so interested students see where is more interest and what wasn't taken yet?
202 2010-03-29T16:58:57 <ThomasWaldmann> comments?
203 2010-03-29T17:02:37 <dreimark> yes
204 2010-03-29T17:02:53 <dreimark> otherwise we can get some trying to do the same thing
205 2010-03-29T17:03:13 <dreimark> and if they discuss late with us it is too bad
206 2010-03-29T17:05:52 <ThomasWaldmann> of course it is allowed to apply for same thing
207 2010-03-29T17:06:13 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: I should update my personal page on moinmoin wiki so :)
208 2010-03-29T17:08:58 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: yes but we won'
209 2010-03-29T17:09:09 <dreimark> t do 5 times convert a to b
210 2010-03-29T17:10:07 <valeuf> afk`
211 2010-03-29T17:10:20 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: no, likely not even 2 times
212 2010-03-29T17:12:00 <dreimark> i give tom. a talk abot http://paste.pocoo.org/show/195217/
213 2010-03-29T17:12:42 <dreimark> besides that is much, do i have missed something important
214 2010-03-29T17:16:49 <ThomasWaldmann> i already thought "quite a mix" and "how long is that talk?" :)
215 2010-03-29T17:17:00 <dreimark> 1-2 h
216 2010-03-29T17:20:03 <dreimark> (i rather will run over some slides, just having examples on it if there are some questions)
217 2010-03-29T17:20:37 *** valeuf
218 2010-03-29T17:21:05 <dreimark> (or skip some)
219 2010-03-29T17:22:11 <ThomasWaldmann> well, if it is about remote collaboration tools: mumble maybe?
220 2010-03-29T17:22:32 <dreimark> good point
221 2010-03-29T18:03:44 <ThomasWaldmann> apropos mumble, we all should do some mumble testing
222 2010-03-29T18:05:15 <ThomasWaldmann> (see http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinChat )
223 2010-03-29T18:14:25 *** selevt
224 2010-03-29T18:24:21 *** valeuf
225 2010-03-29T19:07:54 *** valeuf
226 2010-03-29T20:44:38 <dreimark> bbl
227 2010-03-29T21:04:02 *** grzywacz
228 2010-03-29T21:31:56 *** valeuf
229 2010-03-29T22:11:09 *** valeuf
230 2010-03-29T22:12:00 *** valeuf
231 2010-03-29T22:36:21 *** valeuf
232 2010-03-29T22:37:00 *** valeuf
233 2010-03-29T22:41:44 *** eSyr
234 2010-03-29T22:55:31 *** selevt
235
