MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2009-04-25

2009-04-25T00:14:40  <CIA-36> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4321:4692e88cebb6 1.8/MoinMoin/mail/ (_tests/test_sendmail.py sendmail.py): fix sendmail.encodeAddress (do not [QP] encode blanks, do not unnecessarily use [QP] encoding for pure ascii mail addrs), fix tests
2009-04-25T00:45:28  <CIA-36> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4707:6acb48a16e32 1.9/MoinMoin/ (i18n/__init__.py wikiutil.py): use i18n.strings for wikiutil.isSystemPage()
2009-04-25T00:45:30  <CIA-36> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4708:04c4fdfe48a9 1.9/MoinMoin/support/werkzeug/ (4 files in 3 dirs): updated to Werkzeug 0.5 release
2009-04-25T00:45:32  <CIA-36> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4709:efde74175d2d 1.9/MoinMoin/web/session.py: merged main
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2009-04-25T00:57:05  <ThomasWaldmann> amartani: hi. do you have some machine that's permanently connected to the internet?
2009-04-25T00:59:41  <amartani> ThomasWaldmann: No, but I think I can use one that is if necessary..
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2009-04-25T01:23:20  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe it would disconnect less often and help with the tz difference
2009-04-25T01:23:39  <ThomasWaldmann> ssh -> screen -> irssi is a nice combination
2009-04-25T01:27:27  <amartani> ah, well, irc is blocked at college... I couldn't get clients to work, even using other port...
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2009-04-25T01:30:28  <ThomasWaldmann> amartani: ssh works?
2009-04-25T01:31:32  <amartani> yes, but I don't have computers outside..
2009-04-25T01:32:15  <ThomasWaldmann> amartani: ping shell.moinmo.in, what latency has it?
2009-04-25T01:33:46  <amartani> ThomasWaldmann: 214 ms
2009-04-25T01:34:21  <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, could work maybe. you know irssi?
2009-04-25T01:35:05  <ThomasWaldmann> (and screen?)
2009-04-25T01:35:54  <amartani> ThomasWaldmann: I know screen.. never used irssi..
2009-04-25T01:36:43  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe try it, you could have an account on that server to run irssi in a screen
2009-04-25T01:37:56  <ThomasWaldmann> (only makes sense if you feel comfortable enough with irssi, of course)
2009-04-25T01:37:56  <amartani> ThomasWaldmann: yes, it should work..
2009-04-25T01:40:25  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, all students need to submit their ssh public key
2009-04-25T01:40:44  <ThomasWaldmann> just send it to tw-public at gmx dot de
2009-04-25T01:41:44  <ThomasWaldmann> (make sure it is a safe key and it is protected with a passphrase)
2009-04-25T01:42:30  <devilsadvocate> ThomasWaldmann, i havent checked if it was hit by the debian vulnerability. it probably wasnt, iirc i created the key 3 years on a fc4 machine
2009-04-25T01:43:07  <ThomasWaldmann> sounds ok
2009-04-25T01:43:07  * devilsadvocate guesses it will do
2009-04-25T01:43:49  <ThomasWaldmann> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mwKq7_JlS8 < watch this :)
2009-04-25T01:45:18  * devilsadvocate saw it
2009-04-25T01:46:21  <ThomasWaldmann> umm great yeah guy :))
2009-04-25T01:46:31  <devilsadvocate> :)
2009-04-25T01:47:48  <devilsadvocate> in a few years he'll be eligible for gsoc as a student:P
2009-04-25T01:50:08  <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, then he'll get 4500 rather than 500 :D
2009-04-25T01:53:22  <ThomasWaldmann> devilsadvocate: got your key. as we have still a bit time, I'll set it up all together when I got the other keys, too.
2009-04-25T01:53:36  <devilsadvocate> ThomasWaldmann, sure
2009-04-25T01:54:34  <ThomasWaldmann> amartani: dimazest_: mail ssh pub key to tw-public at gmx dot de
2009-04-25T01:55:41  <ThomasWaldmann> devilsadvocate: btw, you think starting with 1.9 is ok for your project?
2009-04-25T01:56:31  <devilsadvocate> ThomasWaldmann, i think so. But 1.9 is scheduled for relase before soc ends right?
2009-04-25T01:56:56  <devilsadvocate> my project is mostly version independent, atleast less than the other projects
2009-04-25T01:56:58  <ThomasWaldmann> i hope it is sooner :)
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2009-04-25T01:57:14  <devilsadvocate> so i can work on 1.9 for now and move to 2.0 later
2009-04-25T01:57:44  <devilsadvocate> the thing will have to be able to work for different versions too, so we'll get a chance to see how easy it is to modify :P
2009-04-25T01:59:09  <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, 2.0 after midterm maybe
2009-04-25T01:59:38  <ThomasWaldmann> aside from storage config, it shouldn't make a big difference
2009-04-25T01:59:44  <devilsadvocate> when is the 2.0 releasae scheduled?
2009-04-25T01:59:52  <ThomasWaldmann> asap :)
2009-04-25T01:59:53  <devilsadvocate> i tried searching on the wiki, but couldnt really find anything
2009-04-25T01:59:57  <devilsadvocate> :)
2009-04-25T02:00:11  <devilsadvocate> ok.. expected, then?
2009-04-25T02:00:12  <devilsadvocate> :P
2009-04-25T02:00:26  <ThomasWaldmann> autumn/winter
2009-04-25T02:00:36  <devilsadvocate> ok
2009-04-25T02:01:00  <devilsadvocate> hmm.. then it might be possible to ship it with the admin interface >:D
2009-04-25T02:01:04  <ThomasWaldmann> the goal of the storage project this year is to have it releasable
2009-04-25T02:03:40  <ThomasWaldmann> amartani: you weren't here, but we were discussing about your project a bit (read it on the log wiki pages)
2009-04-25T02:04:01  <ThomasWaldmann> amartani: it makes sense that you use the storage branch for your project
2009-04-25T02:04:17  <ThomasWaldmann> (the stuff that will be 2.0 later)
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2009-04-25T02:16:24  <amartani> ThomasWaldmann: ssh key sent.. I'm reading the logs..
2009-04-25T02:24:55  <ThomasWaldmann> amartani: yeah got it
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2009-04-25T11:35:43  <xorAxAx> hi dennda
2009-04-25T11:35:44  <xorAxAx> oops
2009-04-25T11:35:46  <xorAxAx> hi devilsadvocate
2009-04-25T11:36:01  <xorAxAx> devilsadvocate: i am currently catching up on your proposals etc and thinking about it
2009-04-25T11:36:25  <xorAxAx> dont forget that the htdocs (themes etc.) also belong to a moin installation
2009-04-25T11:36:48  <xorAxAx> and might be subject to package installs (was the feature removed already?) and useful in backups
2009-04-25T11:37:22  <xorAxAx> devilsadvocate: what do you mean by "python script(s) for each of the tasks"?
2009-04-25T11:37:44  <xorAxAx> scripts as in moin command line script "plugins"?
2009-04-25T11:40:58  <xorAxAx> "In this case, the python script will be paired with a minimalistic web server in order to generate and serve the html (as opposed to using python cgi)." -- not sure whether that makes sense
2009-04-25T11:46:35  <xorAxAx> devilsadvocate: where do you plan to store the config bits that the user entered into the gui setup pages?
2009-04-25T11:48:34  <xorAxAx> devilsadvocate: regarding setup.py, i think thomas point is that he dislikes distutils and the classic path layout of the moin install -- thats indeed a bit orthogonal to your plans
2009-04-25T11:52:07  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: btw, 1.9 has a builtin static server that may be considered as a fallback if the admin doesn't catch static file access in his webserver before they reach the wsgi script (moin)
2009-04-25T11:52:29  <xorAxAx> sounds like a good idea
2009-04-25T11:53:15  <ThomasWaldmann> (and if client side caching works sanely, performance is ok starting with the second request)
2009-04-25T11:54:45  <ThomasWaldmann> so the main questions are (still) how to cope with the many configurations and how to bootstrap the installer (php?)
2009-04-25T11:57:01  <ThomasWaldmann> i think some php to wsgi middleware would be nice, but I have no clue whether that could work
2009-04-25T13:42:44  <ThomasWaldmann> $ ssh hg@hg.moinmo.in
2009-04-25T13:42:44  <ThomasWaldmann> PTY allocation request failed on channel 0
2009-04-25T13:42:44  <ThomasWaldmann> Connection to hg.moinmo.in closed.
2009-04-25T13:43:13  <ThomasWaldmann> devilsadvocate: dimazest: dennda: (and amartani): try this
2009-04-25T13:43:57  <dennda> hi xorAxAx :P
2009-04-25T13:44:30  <xorAxAx> dennda: why the tongue?
2009-04-25T13:44:37  <ThomasWaldmann> (it should give a similar behaviour as you see above, no question for a password [except for your key passphrase], log you in and immediately throw you out again.
2009-04-25T13:45:05  <dennda> 11:35 < xorAxAx> hi dennda
2009-04-25T13:45:06  <dennda> 11:35 < xorAxAx> oops
2009-04-25T13:45:06  <dennda> 11:35 < xorAxAx> hi devilsadvocate
2009-04-25T13:45:31  <xorAxAx> ah, ok
2009-04-25T14:19:51  <dimazest> ThomasWaldmann: PTY allocation request failed on channel 0
2009-04-25T14:19:51  <dimazest> Connection to hg.moinmo.in closed.
2009-04-25T14:20:19  <dimazest> it works for me
2009-04-25T14:22:38  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: why do you need php for that? because php things are generally easier to install?
2009-04-25T14:23:39  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: yes
2009-04-25T14:24:44  <ThomasWaldmann> one goal of the installer is to get moin installation going easier. if you have to first make python cgi/wsgi work before you can use the installer, it is a bit pointless in that regard.
2009-04-25T14:25:02  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: i think that's a bad idea
2009-04-25T14:25:19  <ThomasWaldmann> why?
2009-04-25T14:30:51  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: a) not everyone has php things installed, b) you could also have some simple python script that opens a configuration server on some port
2009-04-25T14:31:09  <dennda> and you just do `python moinadmin`
2009-04-25T14:31:16  <dennda> ./moinadmin
2009-04-25T14:31:19  <dennda> or something like that
2009-04-25T14:31:53  <dennda> recommending php for a python application just sounds wrong to me :-)
2009-04-25T14:32:07  <ThomasWaldmann> you are assuming a shell
2009-04-25T14:44:23  * dreimark has no php
2009-04-25T14:44:40  <dennda> well yeah, i don't know exactly what the situation is with webspace only providers nowadays
2009-04-25T14:44:43  * dennda neither
2009-04-25T14:48:02  <dreimark> http://www.lag.net/paramiko/
2009-04-25T14:48:16  <dreimark> paramiko is a module for python 2.2 (or higher) that implements the SSH2 protocol for secure (encrypted and authenticated) connections to remote machines.
2009-04-25T14:49:16  <dimazest> i've tried to clone 1.9 repo through ssh and got an error http://paste.pocoo.org/show/unFL5wZfNfPXQUB2oSCK/
2009-04-25T14:49:22  <dimazest> any ideas?
2009-04-25T14:49:34  <dreimark> whch mercurial version do you use
2009-04-25T14:50:22  <dimazest> 1.2.1
2009-04-25T14:53:35  <ThomasWaldmann> dimazest: maybe some connection problem, retry
2009-04-25T14:53:41  <dreimark> does cloning over hhtp work?
2009-04-25T14:53:56  <dimazest> http works
2009-04-25T14:54:11  <dimazest> i'm doing cloning now
2009-04-25T14:54:13  <dreimark> hg clone ssh://moin/moin/1.9
2009-04-25T14:54:19  <dreimark> looks strange to me
2009-04-25T14:55:43  <dimazest> i did like http://bitbucket.org/help/using-ssh/#enabling-compression
2009-04-25T14:55:56  <dimazest> And to specify it in your SSH config file, edit /.ssh/config to look like this
2009-04-25T14:58:11  <dreimark> ok, if there is no typo it should do it (me types mostly)  hg clone ssh://hg@hg.moinmo.in/moin/1.9 1.9
2009-04-25T14:58:18  <dimazest> i disabled compression, but still abort: premature EOF reading chunk (got 120219 bytes, expected 149776)
2009-04-25T15:06:00  <dreimark> hmm cloning over ssh seems to be very slow at the moment
2009-04-25T15:07:38  <dreimark> we could help with an initial clone by adding it tgz to the static files temparory
2009-04-25T15:08:53  <dimazest> dreimark: it doesn't work
2009-04-25T15:09:11  <dimazest> so, i'll clone via http, but push via ssh
2009-04-25T15:09:39  <dreimark> ok
2009-04-25T15:09:49  * dimazest likes mercurial for providing several opportunities to get things done
2009-04-25T15:10:22  <dreimark> yeah
2009-04-25T15:10:31  * dreimark has soon to leave.
2009-04-25T15:11:15  <dreimark> dimazest: can you prepare a wiki page with you rideas for refactoring the group code please (of yourse in the next days not immediately now)
2009-04-25T15:11:21  <dreimark> s/y/c/
2009-04-25T15:11:47  <dimazest> dreimark: i'm thinking about it
2009-04-25T15:12:07  <dimazest> ok, i'll do it in the next few days
2009-04-25T15:14:48  <dreimark> thx
2009-04-25T15:14:59  <dreimark> htg/bbl some hours
2009-04-25T18:27:12  <devilsadvocate> ThomasWaldmann: it works
2009-04-25T18:28:30  <devilsadvocate> xorAxAx: you understood the'scripts' correctly. these are the background stuff that actually do the heavy lifting - wring to config file, etc. i'm trying to keep them separate frm the intereface
2009-04-25T18:29:48  <devilsadvocate> xorAxAx: as for python vs php - we had some discussions about this, which i do not remember if they are reflected in the proposal itself :| but the idea basically is that python-only or php-only startup environments are both supported - python onlu makes more sense for moin, but php only is the more commonly available setup
2009-04-25T18:31:14  <devilsadvocate> xorAxAx: also, themes and htdocs and static pages will be considered part of the install and will be backed up, along with the moin python site package, as a matter of fact. the extractable tarball for backup will hold everything the moin setup needs to be moved onto another system, etc.. sort of like a pack and go thing
2009-04-25T18:33:56  <devilsadvocate> dennda: xorAxAx: "you could also have some simple python script that opens a configuration server on some port" that is what i plan to do. make the python thing first, and then use a sort of php reverse proxy to make it available on the internets. the use case for that is a bit narrow (issues with open ports, but having the ability to enable python cgi or wsgi) but is non-zero. its not much work anyway
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2009-04-25T20:35:18  <xorAxAx> now he kicked himself
2009-04-25T20:45:46  <dreimark> re
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2009-04-25T21:41:54  <xorAxAx> devilsadvocate: my point was that cgi pipelining is much more robust than running a webserver and using php to do http proxying ... furthermore the last question was where/how you store the cconfig. because currently the "configs" are executable code (This message has been postponed.)
2009-04-25T21:44:48  <devilsadvocate> xorAxAx, the configs are finally executalbe code. I was planning to store the configs in an intermediate format (yaml was a potential good idea for future integration) since the interface will not be able to expose _all_ the functionality of the moin configs. The scripts will use the intermediate format configs to write it as python code into wikiconfig.py and farmconfig.py
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2009-04-25T22:02:24  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2009-04-25T22:02:35  <ThomasWaldmann> dimazest: push will only work via ssh
2009-04-25T22:02:58  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: he knows
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2009-04-25T22:08:06  * dreimark has 2 failing tests in 1.9 (only me?)
2009-04-25T22:11:50  <ThomasWaldmann> only 2? :)
2009-04-25T22:16:50  <dreimark> one in test_packages and one in test_wikiutil
2009-04-25T22:29:33  * dreimark doesn't understand why opera should show the sender address somewhere
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