MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2009-03-20

2009-03-20T00:07:09  * ThomasWaldmann watched beowulf (the movie, not the cluster)
2009-03-20T00:21:04  <TheSheep> the book was better ;)
2009-03-20T00:22:52  <ThomasWaldmann> at some scenes one had really trouble to recognize it was computer generated
2009-03-20T00:28:37  <TheSheep> it wasn't, they hired real dragons
2009-03-20T00:28:49  <TheSheep> at least for the book
2009-03-20T00:29:03  <ThomasWaldmann> i rather mean the humans :)
2009-03-20T08:16:36  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2009-03-20T09:05:35  <xorAxAx> lol, real dragons for the book
2009-03-20T09:29:21  <ronny> they are good story-tellers
2009-03-20T11:40:06  <ThomasWaldmann> cosla == Alfonso de la Guarda, is python programmer since 1990 and has develop many GPL applications as: sisventi, sisgerpy, itv, edukt and recently is working with OLPC.
2009-03-20T11:43:16  <TheSheep> ?
2009-03-20T11:44:35  <ThomasWaldmann> he applied as mentor
2009-03-20T11:44:54  <ThomasWaldmann> Melange only gave me "cosla" as information, nothing more.
2009-03-20T11:47:10  <TheSheep> nice
2009-03-20T11:47:25  <TheSheep> whatever melange is
2009-03-20T11:52:32  <ThomasWaldmann> the new soc application
2009-03-20T12:25:06  <ThomasWaldmann> http://blog.dscpl.com.au/2009/03/future-roadmap-for-modwsgi.html
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2009-03-20T15:11:25  <dreimark> moin
2009-03-20T16:44:58  <ThomasWaldmann> hi dr
2009-03-20T16:45:03  <ThomasWaldmann> hi dreimark
2009-03-20T17:06:37  <dreimark> http://wiki.python.de/User_Group_Köln/VortragMoinMoinEinfuehrung
2009-03-20T17:28:33  <dreimark> bbl
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2009-03-20T18:58:39  * ThomasWaldmann currently thinks about reminders as kind of "negative notification"
2009-03-20T18:59:22  <ThomasWaldmann> notifications usually happen triggered by occurrance of some event (e.g. item change)
2009-03-20T18:59:55  <ThomasWaldmann> negative notification would happen if something did not occur, e.g. an item was not changed for 30 days
2009-03-20T19:03:47  <ThomasWaldmann> (of course that means we need to poll whatever holds the specification for the negative notification periodically)
2009-03-20T20:10:55  *** grzywacz has joined #moin-dev
2009-03-20T21:05:04  <dreimark> can you give a list of  "negative notification"
2009-03-20T21:06:17  <dreimark> it's not the opposite of the current notifications. e.g. not user creations makes no sense. There are some new once also possible.
2009-03-20T21:06:48  <dreimark> e.g. item not read by a user or group
2009-03-20T21:06:58  <dreimark> or item not read by all user of a group
2009-03-20T21:07:08  <TheSheep> page edited but not saved
2009-03-20T21:07:25  <TheSheep> you could get a notification that you've got a draft saved
2009-03-20T21:07:31  <TheSheep> with link to it
2009-03-20T21:07:38  <TheSheep> google docs does that
2009-03-20T21:08:58  <dreimark> instead of mailing the page itselfs could show the status too
2009-03-20T21:10:01  <dreimark> and we should also think if we want it only time based or request based too
2009-03-20T21:10:22  <dreimark> e.g. give a notification when the item has got 5 hits
2009-03-20T21:10:31  <TheSheep> "nobody visited your page snce 10 seconds!"
2009-03-20T21:14:00  <TheSheep> dreimark: thanks
2009-03-20T21:14:49  <dreimark> I like this idea :)
2009-03-20T21:15:54  <TheSheep> it's a huge overhaul, however
2009-03-20T21:16:20  <TheSheep> involving losing all the improvements collected throgh the years of real use
2009-03-20T21:16:21  <dreimark> theming will become much clearer
2009-03-20T21:18:11  <TheSheep> it's funny how the view actions would actually become just thing wrappers over parsers -- perhaps even thin enough to merge views, parsers and macros :)
2009-03-20T21:18:27  <dreimark> for the other extensions problem. Sometimes I think we should predefine an extension dir with the setup for MM and predefine a second alias too which points to htdocs of extensions.
2009-03-20T21:19:01  <TheSheep> dreimark: I was thinking about putting all the plugins in htdocs
2009-03-20T21:19:15  <TheSheep> dreimark: but passwords...
2009-03-20T21:19:22  <dreimark> htdocs is in 1.9 below site-packages/MM
2009-03-20T21:19:26  <dreimark> /web/static
2009-03-20T21:20:04  <TheSheep> dreimark: then a second directory made available by web server
2009-03-20T21:20:42  <TheSheep> it would work fine for most cases, but leave a gaping security hole for the few others
2009-03-20T21:21:56  * dreimark dreams from a few dozen extensions in that repo.
2009-03-20T21:22:26  <dreimark> or many more.
2009-03-20T21:23:09  <TheSheep> I doubt you'd want to check out all the plugins just to work on one of them
2009-03-20T21:23:26  <TheSheep> I like to have one repo per project
2009-03-20T21:25:02  <dreimark> hmm
2009-03-20T21:25:16  <TheSheep> I wonder how expensive it actually is to serve static files through moin
2009-03-20T21:25:32  <TheSheep> especially with wsgi's passthrough
2009-03-20T21:26:14  <TheSheep> and with correct cache headers
2009-03-20T21:26:31  <TheSheep> no vary depedning on cookie, for example
2009-03-20T21:26:42  <dreimark> how can we test that?
2009-03-20T21:27:01  <TheSheep> ab
2009-03-20T21:27:32  <TheSheep> but we would have to test on a number of diffrent web servers
2009-03-20T21:27:47  <TheSheep> I can setup apche, lighty and nginx, but no IIS
2009-03-20T21:28:39  <TheSheep> btw, benchmarking and profiling of moin in different setups would make an interesting gsoc or ghop project
2009-03-20T21:28:40  <dreimark> if the testprocedure is known I may be able to ask one to help
2009-03-20T21:29:17  <dreimark> I think this fits better in ghop, because we can file it two or three times
2009-03-20T21:30:26  <TheSheep> yup, and it can be done by users good with winds system, linux system or just python debugging and profiling
2009-03-20T21:32:11  * dreimark thinks we should get an extensions deb package or similiar from extensions whith some 3rd party addons
2009-03-20T21:33:02  * TheSheep would put 90% of the underlay in a separate deb package ;)
2009-03-20T21:33:09  <dreimark> :)
2009-03-20T21:36:54  <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep: i tried the static performance with cgi(!)
2009-03-20T21:37:10  <ThomasWaldmann> first requests were a bit slow, but after that it was ok
2009-03-20T21:37:56  <TheSheep> we could also work a little to minimize the nuber of requests to static files
2009-03-20T21:38:09  <TheSheep> for example, single css file is enough
2009-03-20T21:38:36  <TheSheep> you can use @media for different media
2009-03-20T21:39:30  <ThomasWaldmann> put it onto the theme todo list
2009-03-20T21:40:02  <TheSheep> not sure hwat to do with the print preview then, though
2009-03-20T21:40:13  <ThomasWaldmann> as the stuff is usually cached, it doesn't matter that much if it is one or multiple files
2009-03-20T21:40:39  <TheSheep> it matters with high latency
2009-03-20T21:41:00  <TheSheep> browsers have to make a conditional request even if it's cached
2009-03-20T21:41:21  <TheSheep> unles you set expiration date long into future
2009-03-20T21:41:27  <TheSheep> but then you can't change the themes
2009-03-20T21:41:57  <ThomasWaldmann> we can :)
2009-03-20T21:44:41  <ThomasWaldmann> see how url_prefix_static is done since 1.6
2009-03-20T21:45:52  <ThomasWaldmann> (I didn't set a long lifetime yet in the builtin static server, though. for me it worked fast enough even without that.)