MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2008-08-16

2008-08-16T00:00:43  <xorAxAx> all tests are passing, ThomasWaldmann
2008-08-16T00:01:16  <ThomasWaldmann> that's strange because there definitely was a defect
2008-08-16T00:01:43  <ThomasWaldmann> and I don't see where it was fixed
2008-08-16T00:02:18  <xorAxAx> you could try bisect
2008-08-16T00:02:27  <xorAxAx> (thats a hg plugin)
2008-08-16T00:18:10  <dennda> xorAxAx: thanks, by the way
2008-08-16T00:22:17  <xorAxAx> dennda: no problem
2008-08-16T00:22:23  <xorAxAx> it was really a small change :)
2008-08-16T00:22:35  <xorAxAx> the backends are initialized lazily now in the test wiki
2008-08-16T00:22:49  <xorAxAx> and multiple times
2008-08-16T00:23:49  <dennda> sweet
2008-08-16T00:24:38  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: why did you change multiconfig and remove CopyPage from exclude list?
2008-08-16T00:25:16  <dennda> ERR
2008-08-16T00:25:29  <dennda> sounds like I accidentially committed it and didn't notice it in hg diff
2008-08-16T00:25:31  <dennda> will be changed
2008-08-16T01:32:16  <CIA-54> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station ROUNDTHING com> default * 4825:c5388c3d07e8 1.8-storage-cdenter/MoinMoin/config/multiconfig.py: storage: QuickFix. Accidentially enabled CopyPage by default. Disabling it again.
2008-08-16T01:38:21  <xorAxAx> dennda: can you please move the skip?
2008-08-16T02:38:04  <CIA-54> Florian Krupicka <florian.krupicka@googlemail.com> default * 4084:9831c40c5bd9 1.8-wsgi-fkrupicka/MoinMoin/auth/__init__.py: Code review: added doc strings, added missing abort check
2008-08-16T02:38:05  <CIA-54> Florian Krupicka <florian.krupicka@googlemail.com> default * 4085:0ab9e5a38822 1.8-wsgi-fkrupicka/MoinMoin/web/profile.py: Code review: added doc strings, log exceptions
2008-08-16T02:38:06  <CIA-54> Florian Krupicka <florian.krupicka@googlemail.com> default * 4086:3dd60fe089fe 1.8-wsgi-fkrupicka/MoinMoin/web/_tests/test_utils.py: Code review: make raised TODO exceptions into py.test.skips
2008-08-16T02:38:07  <CIA-54> Florian Krupicka <florian.krupicka@googlemail.com> default * 4087:b75bbed31b67 1.8-wsgi-fkrupicka/MoinMoin/ (action/__init__.py web/contexts.py): Code review: regroup context classes and mixins in a different manner
2008-08-16T02:39:16  <zenhase> *yawn* gn8 :)
2008-08-16T02:39:40  <xorAxAx> gneight zenhase
2008-08-16T02:50:45  <dennda> xorAxAx: hm? like this? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/82359/ :P
2008-08-16T02:51:03  <xorAxAx> dennda: no
2008-08-16T02:51:28  <xorAxAx> dennda: the skip should go after the first assert, no comments
2008-08-16T02:52:11  <dennda> ah ok
2008-08-16T02:53:12  <CIA-54> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station ROUNDTHING com> default * 4826:0068e56e44f2 1.8-storage-cdenter/MoinMoin/_tests/test_packages.py: storage: test_packages: Move skip to have at least a partial test.
2008-08-16T02:54:10  <xorAxAx> i admit that its a bit weird (either failing or skipped), but its sound :-)
2008-08-16T02:54:31  <xorAxAx> gn
2008-08-16T02:55:04  <dennda> sleep well, xorAxAx
2008-08-16T09:46:19  <dreimark> moin
2008-08-16T09:46:58  * dreimark refactors test macro stuff
2008-08-16T10:27:08  <CIA-54> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 3947:7626f4760d9f 1.8/MoinMoin/ (9 files in 2 dirs): macro._tests: refactored duplicated code to common methods
2008-08-16T10:27:16  <CIA-54> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 3790:adf9f4a9cfb5 1.7/MoinMoin/ (9 files in 2 dirs): macro._tests: refactored duplicated code to common methods
2008-08-16T10:39:04  <CIA-54> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 3791:54d9588300de 1.7/MoinMoin/ (9 files in 2 dirs): macro._tests: whitespace removed, docstring adjusted
2008-08-16T10:40:14  <CIA-54> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 3948:62b9f61eb526 1.8/MoinMoin/ (9 files in 2 dirs): macro._tests: whitespace removed, docstring adjusted
2008-08-16T10:40:30  <dreimark> bbl
2008-08-16T11:34:59  <ThomasWaldmann>   moin
2008-08-16T14:40:56  <CIA-54> MelitaMihaljevic default * 4066:8bdb2fa2fbf7 1.8-ldapgroups-mmihaljevic/ (91 files in 33 dirs): merged with 1.8
2008-08-16T19:16:04  <dennda> Is there anything wrong with intentionally starting class names like "Item" with a capitalized first letter in docstrings?
2008-08-16T19:17:49  <dennda> Even though that is not compliant with english grammar rules :)
2008-08-16T19:21:20  <zenhase> well, if you are refering to the class, it sounds like a sane thing to do :)
2008-08-16T19:22:11  <zenhase> if you are refering to an abstract item that MAY be represented by this class, i would not capitalize it ;)
2008-08-16T19:22:46  <dennda> hm I'd rather prefer an official statement on this... xorAxAx, ThomasWaldmann? :)
2008-08-16T19:23:12  <xorAxAx> example please
2008-08-16T19:23:33  <dennda>     The storage API consists of the classes defined in this module. That is:
2008-08-16T19:23:34  <dennda>     Backend-, Item-, Revision-, NewRevision- and StoredRevision-classes.
2008-08-16T19:24:16  <zenhase> capitalized ;)
2008-08-16T19:24:19  <dennda> and then:
2008-08-16T19:24:26  <dennda> A Backend is a collection of Items.
2008-08-16T19:30:21  <TheSheep> dennda: isn't it a factory of them? :)
2008-08-16T19:31:05  <dennda> does being a factory automatically imply being a collection?
2008-08-16T19:31:27  <TheSheep> no, but Backend doesn't actually have all the Item instances in it, does it?
2008-08-16T19:31:57  <dennda> not the instances themselves, no
2008-08-16T19:32:41  * TheSheep is intentioanlly mixing abstraction layers to introduce confusion
2008-08-16T19:32:53  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2008-08-16T19:33:07  <TheSheep> dennda: you must stick to one layer, otherwise madness ensues
2008-08-16T19:34:19  <dennda> TheSheep: I don't get what you try to say :)
2008-08-16T19:34:56  <TheSheep> dennda: nevermind, ignore me, sorry
2008-08-16T19:35:00  <dennda> just talking to a few native english speakers. they don't know their own grammar rules \o/
2008-08-16T19:35:15  <dennda> TheSheep: don't be shy!
2008-08-16T19:35:18  <dennda> :)
2008-08-16T19:35:34  <TheSheep> dennda: of course they don't they never learned it formally, they "knew" it from childhood
2008-08-16T19:35:54  <dennda> umm I had to learn german formally
2008-08-16T19:36:26  <TheSheep> that's a different kettle o'fish
2008-08-16T19:42:26  <xorAxAx> dennda: no dash please
2008-08-16T19:42:41  <xorAxAx> dashes even
2008-08-16T19:42:57  <xorAxAx> then you can drop the word classes at the end
2008-08-16T19:43:12  <xorAxAx> and you should describe how they work together roughly
2008-08-16T19:46:30  <dennda> how they work together?
2008-08-16T19:49:25  <xorAxAx> yes, who contains/returns whom
2008-08-16T19:50:18  <dennda> sure. that was only a snippet and not the whole module documentation :)
2008-08-16T19:58:22  * dennda loves s/Revision/revision/gc
2008-08-16T20:00:16  <TheSheep> yeah, I can't use an editor that doesn't hable regexps
2008-08-16T20:01:22  <dennda> don't you like notepad?
2008-08-16T20:03:38  <TheSheep> dennda: no idea, has it changes since last 5 years? (that's the last time I saw it)
2008-08-16T20:03:52  <TheSheep> s/changes/changed
2008-08-16T20:04:13  <dennda> No
2008-08-16T20:04:21  <dennda> The same as MS Paint
2008-08-16T20:04:45  <dennda> That's the same software since at least Win 3.11 (only it was called "paintbrush" back then)
2008-08-16T20:06:05  <TheSheep> dennda: you are wrong, ms paint is very different from paintbrush
2008-08-16T20:06:21  <TheSheep> dennda: and ms paint from windows 95 is different from the one in XP
2008-08-16T20:06:47  <dennda> how do they differ? at least not in the user interface
2008-08-16T20:07:13  <TheSheep> dennda: no, in supported formats, and standard-scompliance in their support
2008-08-16T20:07:32  <TheSheep> dennda: also the algorithms for resizing and the like are slightly different
2008-08-16T20:07:46  <TheSheep> s/scom/com
2008-08-16T20:07:57  <dennda> but still, the user interface remained 95% the same
2008-08-16T20:08:34  <TheSheep> they got user interface mostly right
2008-08-16T20:08:45  <TheSheep> no reason to change it
2008-08-16T20:10:35  <xorAxAx> no
2008-08-16T20:10:42  <xorAxAx> paintbrush had another user interface than paint
2008-08-16T20:10:50  <dennda> screenshots
2008-08-16T20:10:55  <xorAxAx> paintbrush inherited the interface of the dos version
2008-08-16T20:10:58  <dennda> otherwise: LIES!
2008-08-16T20:11:00  <xorAxAx> which was bought from another company
2008-08-16T20:11:15  <xorAxAx> the dos version was much more powerful, btw
2008-08-16T20:11:42  * dennda remembers having drawn a comic with paintbrush
2008-08-16T20:13:24  <xorAxAx> ah, microsoft didnt buy them, but they distributed dos paintbrush and then copied some aspects of it
2008-08-16T20:13:32  <xorAxAx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Pcpaintbrush_RC.PNG
2008-08-16T20:17:52  <dennda> isn't there something like @rtype or @returns for exceptions in epydoc? maybe @raises or something?
2008-08-16T20:18:40  <dennda> ah @raise
2008-08-16T20:40:02  * dennda puts the things he learned in Softwaretechnik to practice
2008-08-16T20:50:41  <dennda> @return: None <-- needed or is that implicitly given if @return is not specified?
2008-08-16T20:50:41  <moinBot> dennda: Error: "return:" is not a valid command.
2008-08-16T21:25:07  <CIA-54> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station ROUNDTHING com> default * 4827:831f61f5dd01 1.8-storage-cdenter/MoinMoin/storage/__init__.py: storage: ABC docstrings: Improve docstrings. Make them compliant with epydocs format. Correct grammar and spelling errors. Rephrase partially. Starting with module level description and Backend class
2008-08-16T21:44:28  <xorAxAx> dennda: i think its not needed
2008-08-16T21:44:51  <dennda> ok, but I'll leave it there just to make sure
2008-08-16T21:44:53  <xorAxAx> esp. because your docstring will clearly say that a function is doing something
2008-08-16T21:49:14  * dennda looks up how to refer to other docstrings
2008-08-16T21:49:20  <dennda> don't want to duplicate information
2008-08-16T22:50:20  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2008-08-16T22:59:33  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: +        @type itemname: string
2008-08-16T22:59:46  <ThomasWaldmann> rather unicode!
2008-08-16T23:04:49  <dennda> err
2008-08-16T23:05:28  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: But in general, is that the way you wanted it?
2008-08-16T23:06:31  <ThomasWaldmann> yes, docstrings look better now. they need to be more precise though, to not leave not-far-fetched questions open.
2008-08-16T23:07:58  <ThomasWaldmann> and I guess we should insert name = unicode(name) everywhere to have fail-early behaviour
2008-08-16T23:08:23  <ThomasWaldmann> (after soc)
2008-08-16T23:09:12  <dennda> the former "make them more precise" part is not after soc, but right now, is it?
2008-08-16T23:09:26  <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2008-08-16T23:09:37  <dennda> could you give an example where precision is lacking?
2008-08-16T23:09:51  <ThomasWaldmann> e.g. if you tell something is returning a list of ints, one question immediate rises
2008-08-16T23:09:52  <dennda> that's difficult to tell for me, because I know exactly how it works
2008-08-16T23:09:58  <dennda> which range?
2008-08-16T23:10:22  <ThomasWaldmann> a) does it have to be ordered, if yes how
2008-08-16T23:10:48  <ThomasWaldmann> b) does it have to have some specific first revision value
2008-08-16T23:11:10  <ThomasWaldmann> c) do revision numbers have to be subsequent
2008-08-16T23:12:17  <dennda> "specific first revision value" == "start with a specific value"? (in our case start at 0 rather than -12314
2008-08-16T23:17:09  <ThomasWaldmann> well, 0 or 1 or anything is the choice
2008-08-16T23:17:44  * TheSheep chooses anything
2008-08-16T23:19:20  <dennda> @return: a list equal to range(random.randint(-sys.MAXINT, sys.MAXINT)
2008-08-16T23:19:20  <moinBot> dennda: Error: "return:" is not a valid command.
2008-08-16T23:19:29  <dennda> moinBot: you annoy me :)
2008-08-16T23:19:29  <moinBot> dennda: Error: "you" is not a valid command.
2008-08-16T23:19:32  <dennda> !"§!"§
2008-08-16T23:19:40  <ThomasWaldmann> lol
2008-08-16T23:19:41  <dennda> that thing is fooling me
2008-08-16T23:21:09  <dennda> hm nice, OverflowError
2008-08-16T23:21:41  <ThomasWaldmann> describe it in a few words, please
2008-08-16T23:22:23  <dennda> in the docstring? ok
2008-08-16T23:22:57  <ThomasWaldmann> and btw, if the list is required to be like range(N), then i guess the first thing we'll do after soc is to change that nonsense :)
2008-08-16T23:23:27  <dennda> what is wrong with that?
2008-08-16T23:23:49  <ThomasWaldmann> first please specify what is required and what not
2008-08-16T23:26:56  <dennda> by the way, imho the _list_revisions docstring is the wrong place to specify that
2008-08-16T23:27:16  <dennda> that must be specified by the method that actually creates revisions, not by the one that looks them up
2008-08-16T23:27:55  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: fail early would be a function that checks for isinstance and doesnt accept any string
2008-08-16T23:28:20  <ThomasWaldmann> for tests it can be useful to also accept ascii
2008-08-16T23:28:35  <ThomasWaldmann> unicode(s) will happily convert that
2008-08-16T23:28:45  <xorAxAx> but thats not fail fast
2008-08-16T23:28:48  <ThomasWaldmann> (or fail if it is neither ascii nor unicode)
2008-08-16T23:29:00  <ThomasWaldmann> there is no need to fail for ascii
2008-08-16T23:29:17  <xorAxAx> you need to have good test coverage on the integration level to find places where it doesnt work
2008-08-16T23:29:20  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: thats not the point
2008-08-16T23:29:35  <xorAxAx> you dont notice any error as long as you dont pass any non-ascii string
2008-08-16T23:29:36  <ThomasWaldmann> or we only accept unicode and fail every string, fine for me
2008-08-16T23:30:45  <ThomasWaldmann> both is better than accepting both, failing late deep in the backend, and fuzzily talking about "strings"
2008-08-16T23:31:30  <xorAxAx> yep
2008-08-16T23:33:39  <CIA-54> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station ROUNDTHING com> default * 4828:5255eb52de3b 1.8-storage-cdenter/MoinMoin/storage/__init__.py: storage: Little more elaboration on revision numbers during revision creation and listing of revision numbers
2008-08-16T23:34:46  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: c) is missing
2008-08-16T23:35:23  <ThomasWaldmann> (at list_items)
2008-08-16T23:35:31  <dennda> That is nothing list_items has to worry about
2008-08-16T23:35:45  <ThomasWaldmann> ok, dennda, is that docstring true? :)
2008-08-16T23:36:14  <dennda> ?
2008-08-16T23:36:32  <ThomasWaldmann> that was a yes/no question. :)
2008-08-16T23:37:09  <dennda> And I would have answered it accordingly if only I had understood the question
2008-08-16T23:37:28  <dennda> you mean "true" as in "it is implemented this way right now"?
2008-08-16T23:37:53  <ThomasWaldmann> is it required to have revisions starting with 0, and be subsequent? list_revs must be ordered?
2008-08-16T23:38:26  <ThomasWaldmann> if that is true, then list_revisions is just nuts.
2008-08-16T23:38:37  <dennda> I know this is a catchy question, but if I can trust my memory, the answer is yes
2008-08-16T23:38:50  <dennda> hm yes I see your point
2008-08-16T23:38:50  <ThomasWaldmann> because in that case, you don't need a list. just return lastrevno.
2008-08-16T23:38:54  <dennda> I must be missing anything
2008-08-16T23:39:16  <dennda> yes, I got what you mean (even before you explained! :))
2008-08-16T23:39:22  <ThomasWaldmann> i have no clue what is true, you should know, it was your project. :)
2008-08-16T23:39:40  <dennda> it still is :)
2008-08-16T23:39:54  <ThomasWaldmann> yes :)
2008-08-16T23:40:10  <dennda> hmm
2008-08-16T23:40:20  <ThomasWaldmann> so I suggest you talk with johill and pawel about that.
2008-08-16T23:40:43  <dennda> yes, but I think I am missing some important detail
2008-08-16T23:40:58  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, this question is not new.
2008-08-16T23:41:02  <xorAxAx> i posed the same question myself as well
2008-08-16T23:41:08  <ThomasWaldmann> i told you when i implemented fs17 backend.
2008-08-16T23:41:09  <xorAxAx> and probably even here
2008-08-16T23:41:15  <xorAxAx> yep
2008-08-16T23:41:15  <dennda> heh
2008-08-16T23:41:18  * dennda greps
2008-08-16T23:41:39  <xorAxAx> well, you didnt elaborate back then, so searching the logs is not helpful
2008-08-16T23:41:40  <ThomasWaldmann> so i suggest you put a XXX TODO there now :)
2008-08-16T23:42:54  <ThomasWaldmann> well, we discussed about whether to included deleted revs (yes) and about starting with 0 (yes) and then I told "well, I'll just return range(current) and that's a bit insane" or so. :)
2008-08-16T23:43:44  <xorAxAx> we didnt reach the point where the list was justified
2008-08-16T23:44:08  <ThomasWaldmann> yes. maybe it isn't, maybe it is. nobody knows. :)
2008-08-16T23:46:27  <dennda> anyway that's post soc
2008-08-16T23:47:05  * dennda noted it though
2008-08-16T23:48:34  <ThomasWaldmann> you need to clear it for correct docstrings
2008-08-16T23:49:17  <dennda> yes
2008-08-16T23:49:23  <ThomasWaldmann> but maybe start with s/[Ss]tring/unicode object/
2008-08-16T23:49:46  <ThomasWaldmann> except at places where it really needs to be a byte-string, of course.
2008-08-16T23:49:47  <dennda> yup
2008-08-16T23:54:09  <ThomasWaldmann> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20080810
2008-08-16T23:56:20  <dennda> doesn't load
2008-08-16T23:58:20  <ThomasWaldmann> you need to prove you're over 18 :P