MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2008-04-16

2008-04-16T00:07:22  * zenhase drops a needle
2008-04-16T00:08:12  * xorAxAx watches arte :)
2008-04-16T00:08:45  <xorAxAx> s/watches/is watching/
2008-04-16T08:51:37  <dreimark> moin
2008-04-16T08:52:49  <dreimark> johill: if I do use openid for two wiki (no farm) is it possible to share groups too?
2008-04-16T08:54:06  <dreimark> both wiki are sisterwiki
2008-04-16T08:54:41  <dreimark> btw. does have wiki a plural?
2008-04-16T09:04:54  <starshine> one wiki, two wiki :)
2008-04-16T09:05:04  <starshine> many many wikis
2008-04-16T09:06:56  <dreimark> starshine: thanks ;)
2008-04-16T09:07:02  <TheSheep> 999 green wikis standing on the wall! o/~
2008-04-16T09:07:59  * TheSheep suggests "wiken"
2008-04-16T09:11:53  <starshine> "how many wikis are there?" <- software.  "we've a lot of wiki at our site" <- several instances of various flavours.
2008-04-16T09:12:02  <starshine> at least what I've heard used.
2008-04-16T09:12:51  <starshine> TheSheep: as one whose plural is the same word as the singular I'm surprised you object ;>
2008-04-16T09:13:28  <TheSheep> starshine: I know how difficult it is to deal with :)
2008-04-16T09:14:15  <starshine> I think people are being very haphazard about how to make it plural, to be honest
2008-04-16T09:14:35  <starshine> I could see if it's got any plurals mentioned in "The Wiki Way"
2008-04-16T09:14:42  <TheSheep> starshine: I keep seening "sheeps" recently pretty often
2008-04-16T09:14:46  <starshine> I'd be willing to treat that as canonical :)
2008-04-16T09:14:47  <TheSheep> starshine: and "fishes"
2008-04-16T09:14:52  <starshine> fishies!
2008-04-16T09:15:12  <TheSheep> ponies!
2008-04-16T09:16:01  <TheSheep> green gelatinous tentacle monsters from alpha centauri!
2008-04-16T09:16:42  <starshine> hehehe
2008-04-16T09:16:57  * TheSheep ponders the plural form of the word 'centaur'
2008-04-16T09:17:14  <starshine> canter :)
2008-04-16T09:18:14  * starshine yawwwns 
2008-04-16T09:18:17  <starshine> night guys :)
2008-04-16T09:18:33  <TheSheep> sweet dreams
2008-04-16T09:18:44  <TheSheep> about ponies
2008-04-16T09:20:30  <starshine> hehe
2008-04-16T09:34:37  <grzywacz> TheSheep, centaurs
2008-04-16T09:34:37  <grzywacz> :P
2008-04-16T09:35:43  <TheSheep> grzywacz: centaury
2008-04-16T09:36:06  <grzywacz> TheSheep, you should have mentioned that you meant Polish :P
2008-04-16T09:36:10  <grzywacz> Anyway, off I go!
2008-04-16T09:41:45  <dreimark> gn starshine_away
2008-04-16T09:48:41  <xorAxAx> moin got 6 slots now
2008-04-16T09:53:24  <dreimark> :)
2008-04-16T09:53:32  <dreimark> better than 4
2008-04-16T09:53:47  <TheSheep> somehow I was sure we'd get 6
2008-04-16T10:21:03  <dreimark> a 502 on code.google...
2008-04-16T10:31:27  <TheSheep> heh
2008-04-16T11:02:13  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: are you interested in the accessiblity paper abut moin? :)
2008-04-16T11:02:19  <xorAxAx> by simoneit et al.
2008-04-16T11:02:27  <TheSheep> of course
2008-04-16T11:02:31  <xorAxAx> mail address?
2008-04-16T11:04:17  <xorAxAx> TheSheep:
2008-04-16T11:05:44  <TheSheep> xoraxax@sheep.art.pl
2008-04-16T11:06:08  <xorAxAx> too late, i used home@ :)
2008-04-16T11:06:27  <TheSheep> iluvmoin@sheep.art.pl
2008-04-16T11:07:55  <xorAxAx> interestingly, the paper is pretty short (!!!) wrt implementation and empirical results
2008-04-16T11:08:13  <TheSheep> typical
2008-04-16T11:08:25  <TheSheep> empirical results are the hard part
2008-04-16T11:08:48  <TheSheep> I never managed to gather *any* data properly
2008-04-16T11:09:31  <xorAxAx> well, we dont even want to see numbers
2008-04-16T12:18:48  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2008-04-16T12:19:24  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, we should clarify ranking and assign 2 mentors until tomorrow
2008-04-16T12:19:37  <xorAxAx> yes
2008-04-16T12:22:08  <ThomasWaldmann> if assigning a mentor is not enough to get it at top of the list, I suggest either withdrawing mentorship requests from duplicatess or adding a constant +4 scoring to the top projects
2008-04-16T12:23:57  <zenhase> moin
2008-04-16T12:26:44  <ThomasWaldmann> hi zenhase
2008-04-16T12:29:53  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, all students can also help testing 1.7. the 1.7 code will be cloned to 1.8 student repos as base for your project work.
2008-04-16T13:12:00  <ThomasWaldmann> bbl
2008-04-16T13:40:34  <schurig> is it normal / known that the macro <<UserPreferences>> doesn't work in moin/1.7 ?
2008-04-16T13:41:44  <xorAxAx> this is a question for #moin :)
2008-04-16T14:04:00  <gizmach> moin
2008-04-16T14:04:48  <PawelPacana> hello
2008-04-16T14:16:09  <gizmach> PawelPacana: hi
2008-04-16T14:19:44  <TheSheep> hi PawelPacana
2008-04-16T14:32:14  <gizmach> TheSheep: :)
2008-04-16T15:48:10  <kikka> Hi
2008-04-16T15:50:50  <johill> dreimark: hm?
2008-04-16T15:53:43  <johill> dreimark: not sure what you mean with sharing groups, they have nothing to do with openid. or are you thinking of the soc task?
2008-04-16T15:54:29  <dreimark> johill: a bit yes and a bit on how I can use openid with all the wikis I do have currently
2008-04-16T15:55:18  <johill> well openid is just a replacement for the password you'd otherwise use
2008-04-16T15:55:26  <dreimark> we have nothing else as ldap which can probably share group definitions or
2008-04-16T15:55:45  <johill> openid doesn't really have anything like groups, no
2008-04-16T15:57:37  <lr_> hello
2008-04-16T15:57:44  <lr_> is Reimer here?
2008-04-16T15:59:58  <dreimark> hi lr_
2008-04-16T16:00:25  <lr_> hello
2008-04-16T16:00:37  <lr_> you told me that I should come here
2008-04-16T16:00:41  <lr_> in my gmail app
2008-04-16T16:00:52  <dreimark> which is your app?
2008-04-16T16:01:58  <dreimark> lr_: I told nearly every student which didn't find us
2008-04-16T16:02:39  <lr_> ah ok
2008-04-16T16:02:54  <lr_> I usually don't use IRC that's why I never came here
2008-04-16T16:03:18  <lr_> and since the discussion was going well on the google's app I tought it would be enough
2008-04-16T16:03:39  <lr_> by the way
2008-04-16T16:03:47  <dreimark> in principle for getting introduced it is enough
2008-04-16T16:04:00  <lr_> why SVG and not javascript?
2008-04-16T16:04:24  <dreimark> but if your project is choosen then communication will go through this channel
2008-04-16T16:05:04  <dreimark> lr_: some people do disable javascript and javascript does have some incombatible problems too
2008-04-16T16:06:13  <lr_> so I guess if my project is chosen we would have to decide on with technology to use
2008-04-16T16:06:30  <lr_> Alexander also prefers javscript, right?
2008-04-16T16:06:58  <dreimark> ping xorAxAx
2008-04-16T16:08:03  <xorAxAx> pong dreimark
2008-04-16T16:08:10  <dreimark> see above
2008-04-16T16:08:26  <dreimark> SVG or JS
2008-04-16T16:08:28  <dreimark> ?
2008-04-16T16:08:33  <dreimark> or both
2008-04-16T16:08:43  <xorAxAx> lr_: well, my idea is to have both :)
2008-04-16T16:09:05  <xorAxAx> regarding the vast amount of time of 3 months, that should easily be doable
2008-04-16T16:09:11  <lr_> yes I agree
2008-04-16T16:09:33  <lr_> so if JS is supported should be JS if not SVG
2008-04-16T16:09:46  <lr_> and if neither if supported should be gif or jpeg?
2008-04-16T16:10:46  <dreimark> "gif was replaced by png"
2008-04-16T16:10:52  <xorAxAx> nah, the latter goal is a bit difficult because i dont know any usable plotting lib
2008-04-16T16:11:01  <xorAxAx> dreimark: still, gif has a few advantages over png :)
2008-04-16T16:11:38  <dreimark> xorAxAx: http://people.iola.dk/olau/flot/examples/real-data.html
2008-04-16T16:12:12  <lr_> flot is what I suggested on my application
2008-04-16T16:12:14  <dreimark> lr_: which do you like to use
2008-04-16T16:12:35  <lr_> I've worked with YUI and jquery
2008-04-16T16:12:43  <lr_> but I guess I could use whatever you prefer
2008-04-16T16:13:05  <lr_> I prefer jquery since I've worked with it the most
2008-04-16T16:13:24  <lr_> by the way my name is Luis Rodrigues and I'm from Évora, Portugal
2008-04-16T16:13:26  <lr_> you?
2008-04-16T16:15:21  <dreimark> (/whois nick tells our names) I'm Reimar
2008-04-16T16:16:25  <dreimark> Flot is a Javascript plotting library for jQuery
2008-04-16T16:18:10  <dreimark> I don't know YUI and flot only from reading
2008-04-16T16:18:30  <dreimark> I am interested to use such a lib later on to plot csv data too
2008-04-16T16:19:17  <dreimark> johill: if I share the users by openid I do have to setup in each wikis groups
2008-04-16T16:19:55  <lr_> dreimark: ok so we can talk a bit more about this tomorrow
2008-04-16T16:20:11  <lr_> now I have to go since I have a live show this evening
2008-04-16T16:20:17  <lr_> and still have to drive there
2008-04-16T16:20:23  <dreimark> lr_: ok
2008-04-16T16:20:31  <lr_> cya
2008-04-16T16:21:32  <dreimark> johill: If I have already a wiki as openid server I think we should use this wiki too to share groups
2008-04-16T16:22:41  <dreimark> (currently only an idea, it should not only be doable by ldap)
2008-04-16T16:22:54  <johill> hm
2008-04-16T16:22:56  <johill> not sure how that could work
2008-04-16T17:34:07  <zenhase> hmm, /whois zenhase does not tell very much :)
2008-04-16T17:44:18  <zenhase> nice to see some more students pouring in :)
2008-04-16T17:46:43  <gizmach> zenhase: hello
2008-04-16T17:48:58  <zenhase> hi gizmach
2008-04-16T17:49:12  <zenhase> how are you?
2008-04-16T17:53:42  <gizmach> hi zenhase , great, bit tired cause our linux conference started but it's great
2008-04-16T17:53:46  <gizmach> you?
2008-04-16T17:54:31  <zenhase> i had an interesting lecture just 30mins ago
2008-04-16T17:54:41  <gizmach> what subject?
2008-04-16T17:55:09  <zenhase> entrepreneurship
2008-04-16T17:55:38  <zenhase> the lecturer is a quite famous german entrepreneur, head of a chain of drugstores with 6000 stores throughout germany
2008-04-16T17:55:52  <gizmach> heh great
2008-04-16T17:57:27  <zenhase> and he has some very social views on how society should act on the problems of unemployment
2008-04-16T17:58:09  <zenhase> he sees work not as something that brings profit to a company ... but meaning to a persons life
2008-04-16T17:58:56  <gizmach> that sounds interesting
2008-04-16T18:00:28  <zenhase> and that this should not be necessary coupled to survival in the society ... people should be able to life decently even if they don't find work suitable to their abilities ... or even suitable to their motivations
2008-04-16T18:01:13  <zenhase> he's a proponent of something called 'bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen'
2008-04-16T18:01:30  <zenhase> which translates to something like 'unconditional basic income'
2008-04-16T18:01:54  <zenhase> an 'ideal society' idea
2008-04-16T18:03:26  <vpv> some parties are trying to drive that in Finland as well
2008-04-16T18:04:04  <zenhase> vpv: i guess similar plans exist in every advanced economy driven society
2008-04-16T18:04:18  <gizmach> hehe  i think ideal soxiety will never exist
2008-04-16T18:04:52  <vpv> one point is that the people who would live on the basic income are pretty much the same who now live on social security benefits (here, at least), so with basic income you could bring down a lot of the useless bureocracy...
2008-04-16T18:05:14  <zenhase> vpv: yes same here
2008-04-16T18:05:49  <zenhase> vpv: also it is about self-worth ... people living on social security are often seen as ... leeches
2008-04-16T18:06:16  <zenhase> though most of them are really in the position that they aren't able to find decent work
2008-04-16T18:07:13  <zenhase> and the humilating process of bureocracy makes those people feel even less worthy
2008-04-16T18:07:36  <zenhase> and the less worthy you feel ... the less motivated you are to make a difference in society
2008-04-16T18:08:01  <vpv> good point as well
2008-04-16T18:08:08  <zenhase> so it's a downward spiral :)
2008-04-16T18:08:22  <zenhase> it is anyway with the current way of thinking about labour
2008-04-16T18:09:03  <zenhase> unemployment is our curse when it should be our blessing
2008-04-16T18:10:22  <zenhase> but ok, don't want to transform this chat into a socio-cultural discourse ;)
2008-04-16T18:10:33  <zenhase> it's an interesting topic nevertheless
2008-04-16T18:12:42  <gizmach> zenhase: I was a bitcnical
2008-04-16T18:12:53  <gizmach> but of course an interesting topic
2008-04-16T18:32:06  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: i put that link onto CodingStyle and we can recommend it to every student
2008-04-16T18:51:44  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: that's a better place, first time I read that underscore feature
2008-04-16T18:59:48  <dreimark> gizmach: do you know that page we are talking about
2008-04-16T19:01:32  <gizmach> dreimark: ? for CodingStlyes or?
2008-04-16T19:01:50  <dreimark> yes and the new link Thomas added there
2008-04-16T19:02:04  <gizmach> O I didn't look at the link
2008-04-16T19:02:09  <gizmach> I'll do that right now
2008-04-16T19:02:10  <gizmach> :)
2008-04-16T19:03:27  * gizmach is looking at it
2008-04-16T19:09:25  <dreimark> it's a very nice compiled handout
2008-04-16T19:09:39  <gizmach> yes deffinitley
2008-04-16T19:11:34  <dreimark> and a lot of truth "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it"
2008-04-16T19:12:29  <gizmach> hehehe true
2008-04-16T19:14:47  <dreimark> that mentioned link http://jaynes.colorado.edu/PythonIdioms.html is interesting too
2008-04-16T19:20:23  <dreimark> bbl
2008-04-16T19:27:57  <ThomasWaldmann> bbl
2008-04-16T21:23:15  <zenhase> great, google broke my google groups account :o
2008-04-16T21:23:26  <TheSheep> bad, bad google
2008-04-16T21:23:27  <TheSheep> sit
2008-04-16T21:23:29  <zenhase> there are now 2 gsoc students lists
2008-04-16T21:23:56  <zenhase> and it desperately tries to convince me, that i am subscribed to one of them with an old nonexistant email address
2008-04-16T21:24:25  <zenhase> and gives me the options to change it to my current gmail address
2008-04-16T21:24:29  <zenhase> or leave it alone
2008-04-16T21:24:36  <zenhase> which both do not work
2008-04-16T21:24:58  <zenhase> and it won't let me visit a google group before i changed this
2008-04-16T21:25:10  <zenhase> which i can't because it does not work :)
2008-04-16T21:27:42  <TheSheep> sweet
2008-04-16T21:28:40  <gizmach> heh
2008-04-16T21:28:48  <zenhase> haha, it even lists the expired email address
2008-04-16T21:28:53  <gizmach> TheSheep: I hear some cinicizm in your voice
2008-04-16T21:29:05  <zenhase> 'Removed Addresses: '
2008-04-16T21:29:10  <zenhase> that's all :)
2008-04-16T21:29:43  <zenhase> i have to try to replace a nonexistant address in a double existant newsgroup ;)
2008-04-16T21:30:14  <zenhase> perhaps it's a student IQ test for gsoc :p
2008-04-16T21:32:16  <TheSheep> gizmach: me and cinizm? impossible!
2008-04-16T21:34:26  <gizmach> TheSheep: :D
2008-04-16T21:34:43  <gizmach> zenhase: only for you?
2008-04-16T21:41:22  <kikka> heyhey!
2008-04-16T21:41:29  <gizmach> kikka:
2008-04-16T21:41:30  <gizmach> :)
2008-04-16T21:41:37  <kikka> Hey gizmach :)
2008-04-16T21:44:32  <gizmach> kikka: how are you young man
2008-04-16T21:44:59  * dreimark had the same problem and solved it by removing the group with the wrong email
2008-04-16T21:45:26  <kikka> gizmach: fine :)
2008-04-16T21:45:31  <kikka> gizmach: and you?
2008-04-16T21:46:18  <gizmach> I'm ok thx
2008-04-16T23:11:44  <dreimark> gn
2008-04-16T23:29:14  <gizmach> dreimark: night
2008-04-16T23:48:19  * xorAxAx will finally decide on mentorship tomorrow
2008-04-16T23:50:37  <zenhase> by tossing a coin? :)
2008-04-16T23:52:07  <xorAxAx> no :)
2008-04-16T23:52:14  <xorAxAx> i still have a backlog of comments to read
2008-04-16T23:52:34  <xorAxAx> its pretty chaotic to handle that if google sometimes decides not to send them or to defer them