MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2007-12-14

2007-12-14T08:17:02  <cb22> morning
2007-12-14T10:04:39  <xorAxAx> dreimark: #61 needs to closed/reopened
2007-12-14T10:16:04  <dreimark> moin
2007-12-14T10:16:30  * dreimark look at 61
2007-12-14T10:17:54  * cb22 asks for thoughts on http://code.google.com/p/google-highly-open-participation-moinmoin/issues/detail?id=51#c4
2007-12-14T10:23:36  <xorAxAx> cb22: i replied 14 min. ago
2007-12-14T10:23:59  <cb22> xorAxAx: heh, woops
2007-12-14T10:24:21  <cb22> forgot to refresh
2007-12-14T10:37:39  <cb22> xorAxAx: should i be working against 1.6 or 1.7?
2007-12-14T10:37:49  <xorAxAx> cb22: not sure :)
2007-12-14T10:38:06  <cb22> heh, i'll probably end up generating patches for both
2007-12-14T11:08:04  <dreimark> xorAxAx: how do we call this info line where we show the last edit is it last_edit?
2007-12-14T11:10:29  <dreimark> ah it is last_edit_info
2007-12-14T11:25:28  <dreimark> http://www.pro-linux.de/news/2007/12098.html
2007-12-14T12:07:06  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2007-12-14T12:32:54  <ThomasWaldmann> cb22: patches for both would be nice. although it is rather late for 1.6.0 (and I expect this patch to be a bit bigger), it could get in after 1.6.0 release, for 1.6.1. Of course we also want it for 1.7.
2007-12-14T13:28:11  <cb22> ThomasWaldmann: ok, gotya. any big changes 1.6 -> 1.7 in terms of the theme code?
2007-12-14T13:34:31  *** irc.freenode.net sets mode: +o ChanServ
2007-12-14T16:03:16  * xorAxAx handles 77
2007-12-14T16:06:22  <ernestas> xorAxAx, handles = reopens?
2007-12-14T16:06:33  <ernestas> in this case?
2007-12-14T16:07:13  <xorAxAx> i meant 55
2007-12-14T16:07:53  <ernestas> oh
2007-12-14T16:09:59  <ernestas> I hope to learn Python till next year. Then I'll be more useful, too ;)
2007-12-14T16:10:10  <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-12-14T16:10:22  <ernestas> now I know only pascal
2007-12-14T16:10:34  <ernestas> is Python tough to learn?
2007-12-14T16:11:25  <xorAxAx> no, much easier than pascal
2007-12-14T16:11:42  <ernestas> that's good
2007-12-14T16:14:48  <ernestas> I see some people don't read rules. What a shame!
2007-12-14T16:15:13  * ernestas read them twice
2007-12-14T16:37:37  <ernestas> As you didn't have any spare "Present XXX" tasks, tomorrow I'll present SilverStripe :p You've missed your chance...
2007-12-14T16:37:43  <ernestas> j/k :)
2007-12-14T16:38:44  <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-12-14T16:39:01  <xorAxAx> ernestas: dont forget to claim the lt translation task tomorrow evening or the day after tomorrow :)
2007-12-14T16:39:11  <ernestas> yes, I'll do that
2007-12-14T17:07:43  * dreimark comments on 87 reopen it
2007-12-14T18:30:38  <dreimark> bbl
2007-12-14T18:33:23  <ricardo-fang> On issue 84... should i make the jabber bot work with TLS/OpenSSL support? pyxmpp does support it via M2Crypto, but it is getting a bit crazy to build it on Windows
2007-12-14T18:36:22  <rafael> heyho all
2007-12-14T18:42:22  <ernestas> hi rafael
2007-12-14T18:50:33  <rafael> can i import functions from other parsers or should i write it in every parser? what's nicer?
2007-12-14T18:51:39  <TheSheep> rafael: I think it heavily depends on what functions, what parser you write and what parser you import from
2007-12-14T18:52:12  <TheSheep> rafael: if the parsers are heavily related and one of the is build in, I'd go with importing/inheritance
2007-12-14T18:52:13  <rafael> hcard and vcard parser, a function to generate nicer key names
2007-12-14T18:53:56  <ricardo-fang> never really had to use mingw on windows, can i ask some questions if someone can help a little?
2007-12-14T18:54:48  <TheSheep> ricardo-fang: what's mingw?
2007-12-14T18:55:57  <ricardo-fang> "Minimalist GNU for Windows"... have to use it on issue #84 if SSL support to the Jabber bot is a must
2007-12-14T18:56:43  <TheSheep> gnu for windows, how quaint
2007-12-14T18:57:04  <ricardo-fang> in a few words, if it is a must then it is needed to compile OpenSSL by hand
2007-12-14T18:59:03  <ricardo-fang> so yeah, want me to throw in SSL support under Windows also?
2007-12-14T19:07:45  <cb22> ricardo-fang: when i was rying that task, mingw didnt work too well for me
2007-12-14T19:07:49  <cb22> cygwin did however
2007-12-14T19:07:52  <cb22> trying*
2007-12-14T19:09:45  <ricardo-fang> Also worth a try, but then compiled programs are not native anymore ?
2007-12-14T19:10:01  <cb22> true, they would then require cygwin1.dll
2007-12-14T19:12:18  <ricardo-fang> if i didnt still need "make" i could just look for a already compiled OpenSSL DLLs and note the original author's work on the document
2007-12-14T19:13:12  <ricardo-fang> Okay, back to reinventing the wheel :and check results -P
2007-12-14T19:16:46  * cb22 hands ricardo-fang a wheel 2.0
2007-12-14T19:30:14  <ricardo-fang> okay, OpenSSL comes with a MinGW wrapper... but now need to compile perl xD
2007-12-14T20:22:21  <ernestas> see ya
2007-12-14T20:28:32  <tuxella> Hi all
2007-12-14T20:31:44  <cb22> hi tuxella
2007-12-14T20:33:03  <tuxella> cb22, so, how are the GHOC tasks going?
2007-12-14T20:33:53  <cb22> tuxella: good :) im on holiday and have tons of time, you?
2007-12-14T20:34:02  <tuxella> (and by the way, a typographics questions: in english, so you put as space (" ") before punctuation ?
2007-12-14T20:34:23  <cb22> tuxella: as in hello , how are you?
2007-12-14T20:34:33  <tuxella> cb22, for me vacations means I'm writting my repport for my placement during ,y free time
2007-12-14T20:34:51  <tuxella> 'm fine thx ;)
2007-12-14T20:35:18  <cb22> heh, AFAIK, nope, never a space before punctuation
2007-12-14T20:35:26  <cb22> unless its a quote or inverted commas
2007-12-14T20:35:33  <cb22> NOT: hello , how are you
2007-12-14T20:35:40  <cb22> OK: he said, "
2007-12-14T20:35:45  <cb22> hello"
2007-12-14T20:35:59  <tuxella> and i'm writting as fast as I can even if I have to hand out in february because my gf is laste in her project and then i'll have to help here next month ;)
2007-12-14T20:36:01  <xorAxAx> and in french, a normal space before ? is wrong as welll
2007-12-14T20:36:08  <xorAxAx> you need a non-breaking space :)
2007-12-14T20:36:31  <xorAxAx> unfortunately, firefox cant send nbsp characters in a post request, thats why firefox users break every french wiki page
2007-12-14T20:36:40  <tuxella> in french, it is supposed to be a thin unbreakable space
2007-12-14T20:37:02  <cb22> and some people use hello.  two spaces later....
2007-12-14T20:37:10  <cb22> afaik in english thats 'outdated'
2007-12-14T20:37:13  <xorAxAx> cb22: thats american style
2007-12-14T20:37:15  <tuxella> meaning when you write you add a space and then it is your text processor (LaTeX with babel french
2007-12-14T20:37:19  <xorAxAx> or english archaic, no idea :)
2007-12-14T20:37:23  <tuxella> for sure) to d the difference
2007-12-14T20:37:26  <cb22> like mr. john (dot is wrong)
2007-12-14T20:38:14  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2007-12-14T20:38:39  <tuxella> excepting for punctuation with 2 parts (like ? : but i'm not sure about ; )
2007-12-14T20:38:57  <tuxella> in this case it is a thin space before and a normal space after
2007-12-14T20:39:50  <tuxella> cb22, you are not supposed to add a dot after Mr ?
2007-12-14T20:39:58  <cb22> nope
2007-12-14T20:40:13  <cb22> its not wrong, but a DeprecationWarning should be issued ;)
2007-12-14T20:40:47  <tuxella> hum, that's the kind of thing LaTeX could handle but not Ms Word
2007-12-14T20:41:22  <xorAxAx> misses word? :)
2007-12-14T20:43:02  <tuxella> xorAxAx, where would you expect Ms Word to complain about badboxes (badness 1000) or in this case deprecation about the language ?
2007-12-14T20:45:06  <xorAxAx> the latter thing is supported, it has a grammar checker with a lot of rules
2007-12-14T20:45:19  <cb22> ok, i've put an early patch up at http://code.google.com/p/google-highly-open-participation-moinmoin/issues/detail?id=51 could someone just see if what im doing makes general sense :)
2007-12-14T20:45:20  <xorAxAx> e.g. it dislikes sentences using passive voice
2007-12-14T20:45:41  <cb22> trust more in word you must
2007-12-14T20:46:24  <TheSheep> more trust in word is required
2007-12-14T20:46:46  * cb22 disables TheSheep 
2007-12-14T20:47:26  <tuxella> TheSheep, if you want to write a 50 pages long repport in a language you are not native of yes
2007-12-14T20:48:38  <tuxella> TheSheep, but if you want to write a serious thing with corss referencies, glossary, highly tuned tabe of content and so on, then stop word, open emacs (of Kile, TexMaker ...) and learn LaTeX
2007-12-14T20:49:04  * TheSheep points at lower-case letter w
2007-12-14T20:49:05  <tuxella> and as soon as you want write mathematics, definitly give up Ms Word
2007-12-14T20:49:22  <TheSheep> tuxella: you are preachingto the choir
2007-12-14T20:50:02  <tuxella> TheSheep, if you should point at each lexical / syntatical error or even type I do, it'll be faster to write a bot :p
2007-12-14T20:50:44  <TheSheep> tuxella: what I meant is that I mean the noun "word", not a proper noun "Word" as in "Microsoft(tm) Word(R)"
2007-12-14T20:50:53  <tuxella> TheSheep, this should be a phrase for "tu preches un comvaincu" (french) (meaning: you don't nead to argue, I already afred with you)
2007-12-14T20:51:22  <tuxella> TheSheep, that's why I use an upper case W each time my fingers agree with it
2007-12-14T20:52:14  <tuxella> and while we are talking about this
2007-12-14T20:52:41  <tuxella> don't hit me, but is there any MS Word guru around ?
2007-12-14T20:52:56  * TheSheep points west
2007-12-14T20:52:59  <TheSheep> he went that way
2007-12-14T20:53:49  <tuxella> TheSheep, ok thx for the info, i just put a umper on and start runing then,,,
2007-12-14T20:54:03  <tuxella> s/,,,/\.\.\./
2007-12-14T20:54:20  <tuxella> regexp are actually a crap, at list in IRC
2007-12-14T20:54:47  <tuxella> we would need a seeting to say weither we use extended regexp or not
2007-12-14T20:55:58  <TheSheep> that's why my friend insists on chatting in a collab editor
2007-12-14T20:56:04  <TheSheep> ou can go back and correct
2007-12-14T20:56:07  <TheSheep> y
2007-12-14T20:57:12  <tuxella> TheSheep, the worst thing is you need to adapt your syntax depending on where you talk
2007-12-14T20:57:27  <tuxella> here (I hope) evry body understand basic regexp
2007-12-14T20:57:38  <TheSheep> nah, there is this thing called 'common sense'...
2007-12-14T20:57:50  <tuxella> but some of my friend only understand -u+i and *modification
2007-12-14T20:58:47  <tuxella> TheSheep, actually, some people can't understand regexp syntax and then you spend more time expaning why s// ... than rewritting your whole sentence
2007-12-14T20:59:15  <tuxella> and they have forgoten 1 week later when you use it again (yes, I only do type once a week :p)
2007-12-14T20:59:21  <TheSheep> tuxella: at this moment you just retype the senntence :)
2007-12-14T20:59:33  <TheSheep> -n
2007-12-14T21:00:33  <TheSheep> so you put whitespace before punctuation in French?
2007-12-14T21:00:41  <TheSheep> how quaint
2007-12-14T21:00:44  <tuxella> TheSheep, depends
2007-12-14T21:01:12  <tuxella> 1 part punctiation (, . ) needs no punctuation before but one after
2007-12-14T21:01:34  <tuxella> while two parts ones (? ! : ) need a thin space before and a space after
2007-12-14T21:01:48  <tuxella> so most of the time it is one before and one after in this case
2007-12-14T21:02:04  <TheSheep> how about " or %?
2007-12-14T21:03:09  <tuxella> be don't use "
2007-12-14T21:03:13  <TheSheep> and those funny >> and <<
2007-12-14T21:03:29  <tuxella> be have our own quotes
2007-12-14T21:03:37  <tuxella> we use << and >> yes
2007-12-14T21:03:48  <TheSheep> ah, >> and << is German, sorry
2007-12-14T21:03:53  <tuxella> and is is like one space before and one "unbreakable space" after"
2007-12-14T21:04:16  <TheSheep> you mean one space outside and one unbreakable space inside?
2007-12-14T21:05:20  <tuxella> yes
2007-12-14T21:05:45  <tuxella> and for % I think it is juste one after
2007-12-14T21:05:59  <tuxella> like 24% of men ...
2007-12-14T21:06:05  <TheSheep> I investigated different quotation marks at one time, but given up after the first dozen
2007-12-14T21:06:28  <TheSheep> gave
2007-12-14T21:07:03  <TheSheep> the funniest thing is they are country-dependent, not language-dependent
2007-12-14T21:07:16  <tuxella> TheSheep, like keyboards ...
2007-12-14T21:07:23  <TheSheep> the Swiss use different quotes in French
2007-12-14T21:08:04  <tuxella> swiss people sort their bins yet more than finnish people ...
2007-12-14T21:09:50  <TheSheep> in the end it's all irrelevant details your typesetter should take care of
2007-12-14T21:10:16  <TheSheep> I mean, irrelevant at the time of writing the text
2007-12-14T21:10:39  <TheSheep> that is one reason why word processors suck
2007-12-14T21:11:23  <tuxella> word processors rocks
2007-12-14T21:11:33  <tuxella> word _editors_ sux
2007-12-14T21:12:16  <TheSheep> word editors?
2007-12-14T21:13:10  <TheSheep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_processor
2007-12-14T21:13:17  <TheSheep> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_editor
2007-12-14T21:13:43  <tuxella> TheSheep, in my mind : MS Word is a Text editor while LaTeX is a word proecessor
2007-12-14T21:14:04  <tuxella> it may be wrong words ...
2007-12-14T21:15:10  <TheSheep> I guess both are word processors, one of them is easy to use and powerful, the other is WYSIWYG ;)
2007-12-14T21:15:20  <tuxella> ;)
2007-12-14T21:16:36  <tuxella> TheSheep, my problem is that I have learnd LaTeX and learnd to love it, while now I must write a report in .doc and I know that later, companies will use MS Word ...
2007-12-14T21:16:57  <tuxella> and I try to find features I need in word but some just don't exist
2007-12-14T21:17:00  <TheSheep> although latex is often reffered to as 'typesetting software', more in the direction of Adobe Pagemaker and InDesign
2007-12-14T21:17:03  <tuxella> luke glossary for example
2007-12-14T21:18:06  <tuxella> s/luke/like/
2007-12-14T21:24:41  <TheSheep> have you tried to use ConText?
2007-12-14T21:24:51  <TheSheep> I've heard it's simpler than LaTeX
2007-12-14T21:27:51  <tuxella> TheSheep, I don't need simpler, I may need more powerful, but not simpler now I can use LaTeX
2007-12-14T21:28:11  <TheSheep> tuxella: simplier as in you get more control
2007-12-14T21:28:55  <tuxella> TheSheep, but why do you want more control (excepting to place figures) ?
2007-12-14T21:32:11  <TheSheep> tuxella: sometimes you need it, and the LaTeX bites
2007-12-14T21:32:18  <tuxella> TheSheep, do you actually hope LaTeX 3 will be released one day ?
2007-12-14T21:32:30  <tuxella> TheSheep, when ?
2007-12-14T21:40:06  <TheSheep> no idea, I'm not up to date
2007-12-14T21:40:15  <TheSheep> I just use it occassionally when I need to print something
2007-12-14T21:41:40  <TheSheep> hi starshine
2007-12-14T21:42:03  <starshine> hiya
2007-12-14T21:42:44  <TheSheep> starshine: any plans for a christmas mm logo this year? :)
2007-12-14T21:51:39  <starshine> star-moin was pretty cool, should I do another one?
2007-12-14T21:56:44  <TheSheep> I don't rememeber star-moin
2007-12-14T21:57:52  <starshine> it's in contribs
2007-12-14T21:58:21  * TheSheep looks
2007-12-14T21:58:28  <starshine> I was pondering several art for hanukah or xmas, but I did that one and we liked it so much we left it up all winter :)
2007-12-14T21:58:43  <TheSheep> nice
2007-12-14T21:59:03  <TheSheep> I think I remember now
2007-12-14T22:20:17  <tuxella> TheSheep, are you actually interested into typography stuffs
2007-12-14T22:20:18  <tuxella> ?
2007-12-14T22:21:21  <TheSheep> tuxella: yes, a lot
2007-12-14T22:21:41  <tuxella> :)
2007-12-14T22:22:13  <tuxella> TheSheep, great, I think too this is a very interesting subject, even if I don't know a lot about it
2007-12-14T22:22:17  <TheSheep> tuxella: I never actually used a real linotype machine, but my mother used to work in a print shop for a short time
2007-12-14T22:22:54  <TheSheep> tuxella: so I know some stories about ground-shaking, hot lead-spitting hell machines ;)
2007-12-14T22:32:28  <rafael> how to make a mailto: link with the formatter?
2007-12-14T22:34:26  <xorAxAx> see the mailto macro
2007-12-14T22:35:16  <rafael> can i use it to write in the request, too?
2007-12-14T22:41:00  <xorAxAx> hmm?
2007-12-14T23:42:59  <ricardo-fang> After some hours reinventing the wheel and fighting, failed getting M2Crypto to work... :-( yet it is optional to build pyxmpp
2007-12-14T23:44:40  <ricardo-fang> must ask for a moinmoin developer... is M2Crypto really needed for the notification bot?
2007-12-14T23:45:02  <xorAxAx> ricardo-fang: if the pyxmpp sources say it is optional, then it is for moin as well
2007-12-14T23:45:22  <xorAxAx> except if your server requires ssl
2007-12-14T23:45:24  <xorAxAx> i guess
2007-12-14T23:46:01  <ricardo-fang> xorAxAx may i follow issue #83 without it then? went a lot far thanks to it, but some hours led to nothing
2007-12-14T23:46:30  <xorAxAx> yes, if it works without, ignore it
2007-12-14T23:46:36  <xorAxAx> arent there any windows binaries?
2007-12-14T23:49:07  <ricardo-fang> till some dependency point, yes... then i end up needing to compile OpenSSL with MinGW, and M2Crypto doesnt work after compiling... more about it at http://moinmo.in/RicardoFang/Issue84
2007-12-14T23:49:48  <ricardo-fang> and M@Crypto itself has a binary only for Python 2.4... latest is 2.5.1
2007-12-14T23:49:57  <ricardo-fang> M2Crypto*
2007-12-14T23:51:04  <xorAxAx> ah
2007-12-14T23:52:24  <ricardo-fang> thank god i'm getting away from Window$ slowly... this optional hell was enough... back to the non-optional part