2007-12-01T00:00:22 <xorAxAx> hmm, december again, i should start worrying about gifts
2007-12-01T00:00:42 <xorAxAx> time flies ...
2007-12-01T00:01:19 <veerz> xorAxAx, hm the haven't replaced all the files
2007-12-01T00:02:39 <xorAxAx> you mean "they"?
2007-12-01T00:03:05 <xorAxAx> then it should be easy to do it better :)
2007-12-01T00:04:16 <veerz> yes
2007-12-01T00:04:42 <veerz> But so I'm at least not the first guy that had this idea
2007-12-01T00:04:50 <veerz> so I guess its a good one :)
2007-12-01T00:05:36 <xorAxAx> well, their idea was a bit obvious because tango is the default gtk theme nowadays or something like that
2007-12-01T00:06:15 <veerz> It's even the default gtk icon set ;)
2007-12-01T00:06:21 <xorAxAx> yes
2007-12-01T00:09:30 <veerz> But there is something strange, they (the gnome guys) have changed the moinmoin icons to match the tango style
2007-12-01T00:09:51 <xorAxAx> you mean they edited the ones in moin instead of replacing them?
2007-12-01T00:10:05 <xorAxAx> maybe they think that it looks better this way?
2007-12-01T00:10:09 <veerz> but they haven't changed their own logo (the earth like thing)
2007-12-01T00:10:44 <xorAxAx> makes sense, doesnt it? they shouldnt use a moin logo there :)
2007-12-01T00:14:08 <veerz> No I mean the style of the logo it still looks like the old gnome icons did
2007-12-01T00:14:19 <xorAxAx> ah
2007-12-01T00:14:40 <xorAxAx> old == tango or older?
2007-12-01T00:22:10 <veerz> older
2007-12-01T00:24:08 <xorAxAx> good night
2007-12-01T00:30:38 <veerz> good night xorAxAx
2007-12-01T01:09:15 <CIA-33> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 2377:ac9ecb199c0b 1.6/MoinMoin/search/_tests/test_search.py: search: add search tests (copied from 1.7)
2007-12-01T01:09:18 <CIA-33> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 2378:263630fba09f 1.6/MoinMoin/search/ (builtin.py queryparser.py): search: add debug logging, fix bugs (negative search terms failing, and others - backport from 1.7)
2007-12-01T01:09:19 <CIA-33> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 2379:e1e980e7e9a7 1.6/MoinMoin/ (PageEditor.py PageGraphicalEditor.py): merge main
2007-12-01T02:57:42 <cb22> hi, anyone around?
2007-12-01T03:02:33 <cb22> well, for the interested, http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/MoinDumpTheme
2007-12-01T03:02:38 <cb22> woops
2007-12-01T03:03:01 <cb22> pastebin.com/m447e59d9
2007-12-01T10:59:50 <xorAxAx> 3 reviews pending: 82, 41, 56
2007-12-01T11:29:32 <cb22> xorAxAx: note, thats not the final patch by far :)
2007-12-01T11:29:41 <cb22> thats not even a patch, its just a changed function
2007-12-01T11:29:44 <xorAxAx> yes
2007-12-01T11:29:54 <cb22> but basically what i did was use mtime
2007-12-01T11:30:02 <cb22> it appears to work perfectly
2007-12-01T11:30:13 <cb22> and it keeps the memory cache in sync with the disk cache
2007-12-01T11:30:28 <cb22> and adds really little overhead
2007-12-01T11:31:12 <cb22> although, i still have one issue to work out
2007-12-01T11:31:25 <cb22> what should i name the value in the dictionary that stores the mtime
2007-12-01T11:31:45 <xorAxAx> mtime? :)
2007-12-01T11:31:49 <cb22> currently it is 'xxx:time' but if it could be used as a username....
2007-12-01T11:32:03 <xorAxAx> ah, well, you could have a tuple (mtime, dict)
2007-12-01T11:32:12 <cb22> ah, yeah good idea
2007-12-01T11:32:46 <cb22> weird, i just feel so much more productive using xfce4 and eclipse then in windows
2007-12-01T11:33:20 <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-12-01T12:00:05 <blinx> moin
2007-12-01T12:01:01 <cb22> hmm, is it just me or does getUserId in user.py update the user cache if a invalid username is used?
2007-12-01T12:01:14 <cb22> even if*
2007-12-01T12:03:54 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2007-12-01T12:05:54 <cb22> hello ThomasWaldmann
2007-12-01T12:05:56 <blinx> where I can find more information about html.formatter?
2007-12-01T12:08:45 <ThomasWaldmann> blinx: by read the formatter source code?
2007-12-01T12:08:51 <ThomasWaldmann> +ing
2007-12-01T12:09:25 <cb22> its not perl :)
2007-12-01T12:10:02 <blinx> ThomasWaldmann: I found it: http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/1.6/file/a6ffa22507a4/MoinMoin/formatter/text_html.py
2007-12-01T12:10:10 <blinx> thx
2007-12-01T12:25:46 * ThomasWaldmann reviews the ppt presentation
2007-12-01T12:38:47 * ThomasWaldmann commented on the issues of the stuff give. maybe someone else could comment on the content (and what's missing there).
2007-12-01T12:41:03 * ThomasWaldmann reviews issue 24
2007-12-01T12:54:44 * ThomasWaldmann reviews issue 88
2007-12-01T13:13:21 <cb22> the tasks are running out :)
2007-12-01T13:14:44 <xorAxAx> cb22: not really :)
2007-12-01T13:15:20 <xorAxAx> i am seeing more than 20 open code tasks
2007-12-01T13:16:04 <cb22> yay! code tasks
2007-12-01T13:16:46 <cb22> its really nice that moin is written in python
2007-12-01T13:17:07 <dreimark> moin
2007-12-01T13:17:24 <ThomasWaldmann> hi dreimark
2007-12-01T13:20:25 * dreimark continous fix nesting
2007-12-01T13:26:42 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: maybe you want to have a look at the EmbedObject related plugin research task
2007-12-01T13:30:13 * dreimark comments on 56
2007-12-01T13:34:00 * cb22 wants to get back home to finish his patch
2007-12-01T13:36:05 <ThomasWaldmann> cb22: instead of using logme, better use logging.debug("whatever")
2007-12-01T13:37:27 <cb22> i tried, but i wasn't getting any output
2007-12-01T13:38:16 <ThomasWaldmann> what server?
2007-12-01T13:39:16 <cb22> standard DE. i think it is just getting drowned out
2007-12-01T13:39:33 <cb22> there is a lot of other debugging output
2007-12-01T13:39:44 <ThomasWaldmann> you mean the 1.5.5a thing?
2007-12-01T13:40:21 <cb22> nope, just moin.py
2007-12-01T13:40:34 <ThomasWaldmann> that should work
2007-12-01T13:41:40 <cb22> yeah, i think there is just too much other output
2007-12-01T13:48:46 <veerz> good morning :)
2007-12-01T13:48:57 <cb22> also, instead of storing the mtime in the cfg.cache.name2id dict, i am now storing it in cfg.cache.mtime
2007-12-01T13:53:58 <xorAxAx> cb22: hmm, then you should name it name2id_mtime
2007-12-01T13:54:00 <xorAxAx> moin veerz
2007-12-01T13:55:02 <cb22> xorAxAx: good idea
2007-12-01T14:21:00 <ThomasWaldmann> cb22: btw, if you like to contribute some easy code outside of ghop: the quicklink action has the same problem as the subscribe action had before your fix
2007-12-01T14:22:41 <ThomasWaldmann> (it is Add Link / Remove Link in the edit bar)
2007-12-01T15:13:29 <xorAxAx> grzywacz: ping
2007-12-01T15:13:41 <xorAxAx> hmm, so many karols
2007-12-01T15:16:47 <TheSheep> xorAxAx: I'll try to bring more poles soon ;)
2007-12-01T15:17:10 <xorAxAx> cool
2007-12-01T15:17:12 * ThomasWaldmann wants a north pole
2007-12-01T15:18:06 * TheSheep wants a 10ft pole
2007-12-01T15:19:00 * ThomasWaldmann continues fixing the borked search
2007-12-01T15:49:03 * dreimark needs more examples showing brokeness of nestings
2007-12-01T15:49:14 <cb22> ThomasWaldmann: sure, i'll give it a shot
2007-12-01T15:50:49 <CIA-33> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 2956:a8809feee20c 1.7/MoinMoin/search/_tests/test_search.py: search: add failing tests
2007-12-01T15:53:12 <ThomasWaldmann> if someone has a clue about why this is failing, please contribute ideas/fixes
2007-12-01T15:53:41 <ThomasWaldmann> for me it looks like queryparser _single_term is broken
2007-12-01T15:54:26 <ThomasWaldmann> esp. the handling of "or" looks strange
2007-12-01T15:56:27 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/getPageTextFailsOnSomePres
2007-12-01T15:58:49 <dreimark> thats a good one
2007-12-01T15:59:19 <dreimark> have to continue and to extract which testcases I have to add
2007-12-01T16:01:17 <ernestas> hello. I would like to ask one question about GHOP. There are many "work on XX translation" issues, but I can't find my language. Are these only languages that students are able to translate? Could I translate to some outher language?
2007-12-01T16:02:23 <xorAxAx> ernestas: which language do you speak? :)
2007-12-01T16:02:27 <xorAxAx> we can create a task for you
2007-12-01T16:03:08 <ernestas> Lithuanian. But I could work on the translation only after one week, becouse am I currenty working on another issue.
2007-12-01T16:03:23 <ernestas> sorry for mistakes ;)
2007-12-01T16:03:41 <ernestas> I'm just planing ahead.
2007-12-01T16:03:45 <xorAxAx> yes
2007-12-01T16:03:46 <xorAxAx> hmm
2007-12-01T16:04:30 <xorAxAx> lithuanian is important of course
2007-12-01T16:04:47 <xorAxAx> because there will be the second europython conference next year :)
2007-12-01T16:04:57 <ernestas> in Lithuania?
2007-12-01T16:05:04 <xorAxAx> in vilnius
2007-12-01T16:05:07 <ernestas> oh it's nice to hear that ;)
2007-12-01T16:05:11 <ernestas> I'm from Vilnius
2007-12-01T16:05:13 <xorAxAx> i mean, it will be there for the second time
2007-12-01T16:05:25 <xorAxAx> this year it already was in vilnius :)
2007-12-01T16:05:32 <ernestas> oh my ;)
2007-12-01T16:05:40 <ernestas> well, did you like Vilnius?
2007-12-01T16:05:48 <xorAxAx> i didnt join the conference this year
2007-12-01T16:05:53 <ernestas> ok
2007-12-01T16:05:57 <xorAxAx> but i was there last year in geneva
2007-12-01T16:06:04 <xorAxAx> ok, so let me create a task for you
2007-12-01T16:06:20 <xorAxAx> of course somebody else might claim it in between, but we cant avoid it :)
2007-12-01T16:06:20 <ernestas> I won't work on it now
2007-12-01T16:06:23 <xorAxAx> yes
2007-12-01T16:07:11 <ThomasWaldmann> ernestas: i was in vilnius at last europython
2007-12-01T16:07:20 <ThomasWaldmann> nice old town :)
2007-12-01T16:07:40 <ernestas> ok. and if anyone else claims it and, let's say, translates the main part, can I then translate any other parts? like wiki pages?
2007-12-01T16:07:52 <ernestas> ThomasWaldmann: that's nice to hear ;)
2007-12-01T16:08:31 <ThomasWaldmann> ernestas: we have some spare tasks left and a complete translation starting from 0 is more than 1 task
2007-12-01T16:08:47 <ernestas> ok, thanks
2007-12-01T16:08:47 <xorAxAx> ernestas: then we can create a second task, yes
2007-12-01T16:10:13 <cb22> ThomasWaldmann: ok, creating the quicklink patch. where do you want it sent to?
2007-12-01T16:10:33 <ThomasWaldmann> ernestas: we can meet next year at EP :))
2007-12-01T16:10:41 <ernestas> sure, why not :)
2007-12-01T16:11:01 <ernestas> when is it going to be?
2007-12-01T16:11:04 <xorAxAx> ernestas: ok, task is in the system, have fun with your current task
2007-12-01T16:11:14 <ernestas> xorAxAx: thanks ;)
2007-12-01T16:14:11 <ThomasWaldmann> Lithuania is expected to switch to the Euro on 1 January 2009 (so still litas next year)
2007-12-01T16:15:20 <ThomasWaldmann> but maybe that's better for the prices :)
2007-12-01T16:16:44 <cb22> ThomasWaldmann: ok, patch created. where you want it?
2007-12-01T16:19:25 <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/SubscribeAndUnsubscribeShareSameUrl attach it there at the bottom (if you mean the quicklinks stuff)
2007-12-01T16:20:44 <cb22> You have 2 apples, then you eat one, how many are left?
2007-12-01T16:20:48 <cb22> thats a hard one :/
2007-12-01T16:21:02 <veerz> a really hard ONE :p
2007-12-01T16:21:33 <cb22> heh
2007-12-01T16:21:38 <xorAxAx> on #wiki we concluded, that this question should accept one or two
2007-12-01T16:21:51 <xorAxAx> because you will still the pieces of the second apple in your stomach
2007-12-01T16:21:57 <xorAxAx> +have
2007-12-01T16:22:03 <cb22> hehe
2007-12-01T16:22:06 <veerz> heh
2007-12-01T16:22:09 <cb22> you also need to sort our the OS one :p
2007-12-01T16:22:57 <cb22> it doesnt accept freebsd as an OS
2007-12-01T16:23:30 <cb22> um, how do i upload a file?
2007-12-01T16:26:11 <dreimark> where
2007-12-01T16:26:14 <dreimark> ?
2007-12-01T16:26:30 <cb22> on thewon the moin wiki
2007-12-01T16:26:40 <cb22> the moin wiki*
2007-12-01T16:28:16 <dreimark> see Attachments in the edit bar (starts with Edit ....)
2007-12-01T16:28:21 <ThomasWaldmann> cb22: iirc it accepts posix :)
2007-12-01T16:28:42 <ninnnu> Err... Is it normal that "standalone" fetched-from-Mercurial-just-some-minutes-ago MoinMoin performs LOTS of LinkSearch/PageFilter/TextSearch/*Searchs and uses LOTS of CPU...? (ok, it's bleeding edge, but...)
2007-12-01T16:29:11 <ThomasWaldmann> ninnnu: when does it perform them?
2007-12-01T16:29:28 <cb22> i know starting the first time is very slow
2007-12-01T16:29:52 <ninnnu> ThomasWaldmann: Right after I tried to reproduce http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/ArbitraryInjectionOfErrorMessage
2007-12-01T16:30:53 <ninnnu> At least I noticed that happening after trying to redo that bug...
2007-12-01T16:31:20 <ThomasWaldmann> i need more details - could you file a bug and post all you know about it there?
2007-12-01T16:34:09 <ninnnu> Even though I'm running bleeding edge instead of the .tar.gz that can be downloaded from Moinmo.in?
2007-12-01T16:35:38 <ThomasWaldmann> just specify that it is 1.6 branch changeset hash xxxxx
2007-12-01T16:36:15 <ThomasWaldmann> we want to release that soon, so if we can fix bugs now that better than after the release :)
2007-12-01T16:37:58 <ninnnu> Ok... Give me a moment...
2007-12-01T16:40:26 <ninnnu> It stopped..
2007-12-01T16:55:10 <ninnnu> There goes..
2007-12-01T16:55:35 <ninnnu> http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/SearchTestsRunningWithoutRequest
2007-12-01T16:55:52 <ninnnu> (Wasn't sure about the title, but... That was what I think/thought it was)
2007-12-01T16:57:15 <CIA-33> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 2380:d101381a1874 1.6/MoinMoin/ (action/quicklink.py theme/__init__.py action/quickunlink.py): fix quicklink action using same URL for link/unlink (thanks to Federico Lorenzi)
2007-12-01T16:59:35 <ThomasWaldmann> ninnnu: if you edit a nonexisting page, moin will present you with a list of pages of similar names
2007-12-01T17:01:47 <ThomasWaldmann> (and it has to search for those :)
2007-12-01T17:02:09 <ThomasWaldmann> also it presents a list of Templates ...
2007-12-01T17:03:57 <ThomasWaldmann> also you did a linkto search ?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=linkto
2007-12-01T17:04:23 <ThomasWaldmann> which can be very expensive the first time it runs as it has to create the pagelinks cache for all pages
2007-12-01T17:07:49 * ThomasWaldmann moved the quicklink.patch to a better page
2007-12-01T17:08:24 <cb22> ThomasWaldmann: ty, i just figured out the upload function :)
2007-12-01T17:11:29 <ThomasWaldmann> cb22: there are already plans to streamline this (unifying attachments and pages to generic items)
2007-12-01T17:12:17 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, of course we will lower the default loglevel to less than debug before release
2007-12-01T17:12:23 <ninnnu> ThomasWaldmann: But I didn't try to edit nonexisting page...
2007-12-01T17:13:16 <ThomasWaldmann> 173922 INFO 127.0.0.1 "GET /K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4Asetukset?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=linkto%3A%22K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4Asetukset%22 HTTP/1.1" 200 -
2007-12-01T17:13:26 <ThomasWaldmann> this triggered the linkto stuff
2007-12-01T17:15:14 <ninnnu> Hm.. Ok, so I clicked on wrong point after all..
2007-12-01T17:16:15 <ThomasWaldmann> linkto search happens by clicking on a page title
2007-12-01T17:16:53 <ninnnu> Apparently, yes. So it was a PEBCAK.
2007-12-01T17:21:53 <dreimark> xorAxAx: thats a record of nicks here :)
2007-12-01T17:26:58 <xorAxAx> 15:58:13 -!- Irssi: New peak in #moin-dev@freenode : 25
2007-12-01T18:08:06 * ThomasWaldmann comments #4
2007-12-01T18:15:13 * ThomasWaldmann downloads the screencast
2007-12-01T18:32:21 <grzywacz> moin
2007-12-01T18:34:52 <xorAxAx> grzywacz: moin, did you see my message?
2007-12-01T18:36:17 <grzywacz> xorAxAx, hm
2007-12-01T18:36:20 <grzywacz> xorAxAx, issue 24?
2007-12-01T18:36:31 <xorAxAx> yes
2007-12-01T18:36:53 <grzywacz> What exactly should I check?
2007-12-01T18:37:27 <xorAxAx> well, if the generated pages/edits make sense
2007-12-01T18:37:30 <xorAxAx> quality wise
2007-12-01T18:39:48 <grzywacz> FAQ in Polish is completly new, right?
2007-12-01T18:41:13 <xorAxAx> that has to be checked :)
2007-12-01T18:41:28 <xorAxAx> maybe he didnt see the old one :)
2007-12-01T18:42:58 <grzywacz> ser? ;)
2007-12-01T18:46:33 <veerz> 39 icons done, 7 missing :)
2007-12-01T18:49:46 <grzywacz> ::>
2007-12-01T18:51:27 <veerz> btw, How do you verify translations into $some-uncommon-language?
2007-12-01T18:51:53 <grzywacz> I guess by finding speakers of uncommon languages first.
2007-12-01T18:51:54 <grzywacz> ;-)
2007-12-01T18:52:27 <grzywacz> xorAxAx, anyway, I don't know if he did the whole FAQ, but there are some issues that should be corrected
2007-12-01T18:53:15 <xorAxAx> contents-wise?
2007-12-01T18:53:25 <xorAxAx> or translation-wise?
2007-12-01T18:54:36 <grzywacz> Some sentences don't make sense or have meaning different from the original and there are some spelling issues as well.
2007-12-01T18:55:00 <grzywacz> Other than that, it's mostly ok.
2007-12-01T19:05:25 <grzywacz> xorAxAx, issues that I found by skimming through text: http://kolos.math.uni.lodz.pl/~grzywacz/czestozadawanepytania.txt
2007-12-01T19:05:32 <grzywacz> Should I post it in a comment?
2007-12-01T19:07:20 <xorAxAx> yes
2007-12-01T19:08:55 <dreimark> sometimes I do see in 1.6 standalone server:i18n: fallback to english, requested string not in 'de' translation: '/!\\'
2007-12-01T19:14:34 <grzywacz> done
2007-12-01T19:31:17 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: that's normal
2007-12-01T19:31:31 <dreimark> ok
2007-12-01T19:31:46 <xorAxAx> its normal that somebody calls _() for /!\?
2007-12-01T19:32:10 <xorAxAx> hmm, i guess its some loop for the icons
2007-12-01T19:36:03 * ThomasWaldmann fixes highlighting
2007-12-01T19:53:45 <CIA-33> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 2381:0fcf23cee5e8 1.6/MoinMoin/ (action/fullsearch.py search/queryparser.py search/results.py): avoid empty highlight query arg, do not use highlight for titlesearch terms
2007-12-01T19:57:20 <dreimark> current status of nesting: I believe more and more without a syntax change
2007-12-01T19:57:31 <dreimark> http://moinmo.in/FeatureRequests/ParsersCanNotContain%7B%7B%7B%7D%7D%7D
2007-12-01T19:57:49 <dreimark> gets broken if the other nesting bug is fixed
2007-12-01T19:57:58 <dreimark> (broken again)
2007-12-01T19:58:00 <ThomasWaldmann> you believe what?
2007-12-01T19:58:47 <dreimark> This one will show up "ERROR: EOF in multi-line statement"
2007-12-01T19:59:32 <dreimark> as it did in 1.5.x
2007-12-01T19:59:46 <ThomasWaldmann> sure, if you remove nesting support, trying to nest will break stuff
2007-12-01T20:01:18 <dreimark> the problem is }}} or {{{ not balanced
2007-12-01T20:01:51 <ThomasWaldmann> sure, you can't make assumptions about pre contents
2007-12-01T20:03:12 <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, we could solve that
2007-12-01T20:03:13 <dreimark> I can do sending all lines at the end which are in the pipe
2007-12-01T20:03:38 <dreimark> then its clear that someone has to change something in the page
2007-12-01T20:03:41 <veerz> what do you guys think about the icons? http://img4.myimg.de/screenshot8e090.png
2007-12-01T20:03:46 <ThomasWaldmann> how about {{{#!parsername terminator=XXX
2007-12-01T20:03:49 <ThomasWaldmann> ...
2007-12-01T20:03:52 <ThomasWaldmann> XXX
2007-12-01T20:03:55 <ThomasWaldmann> }}}
2007-12-01T20:04:50 <ThomasWaldmann> of course the editor has to think about a XXX not causing problems
2007-12-01T20:09:24 <xorAxAx> veerz: nice, but attach is still too large :)
2007-12-01T20:09:36 <veerz> xorAxAx, same size as the old one
2007-12-01T20:09:46 <veerz> do you think it should be 16x16 as well?
2007-12-01T20:10:41 <ThomasWaldmann> veerz: can you arrange them in the way they are show in classic iconbar? or make a screenshot of that?
2007-12-01T20:11:24 <veerz> ThomasWaldmann, what is the classic iconbar?
2007-12-01T20:11:49 <veerz> Ah, you mean the toolbar of the classic theme?
2007-12-01T20:12:07 <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2007-12-01T20:12:59 <xorAxAx> veerz: hmm, check where it is used
2007-12-01T20:13:23 <ThomasWaldmann> one of the criteria for these icons is that they can be recognized/differentiated "at a glance" - one has to look at them in the way they are shown to see if they work.
2007-12-01T20:14:54 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: bash uses "here documents" in a similar way
2007-12-01T20:15:13 <veerz> http://img4.myimg.de/screenshotclassicf603e.png
2007-12-01T20:16:26 <ThomasWaldmann> edit, reload, no idea, other no idea, subscribe, no idea, print
2007-12-01T20:16:37 <ThomasWaldmann> that's my thought when seeing that
2007-12-01T20:16:47 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: I think however it is solved you have to get at least a wrong output that you know something is needed to be changed
2007-12-01T20:17:41 <veerz> ThomasWaldmann, hm, any suggestions for the diff icon?
2007-12-01T20:18:05 <veerz> thats directly associated with it
2007-12-01T20:19:15 * ThomasWaldmann is rather clueless about inventing icons :)
2007-12-01T20:22:01 <ThomasWaldmann> A->B would be representing some sort of change/diff display
2007-12-01T20:22:21 <ThomasWaldmann> but for a chinese, it is no good as they dont have A and B
2007-12-01T20:22:35 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/13430/ something like this should be added.
2007-12-01T20:23:16 <dreimark> then all is on the page and the user could decide which "nesting" he likes to escape
2007-12-01T20:24:54 <ThomasWaldmann> it doesnt request user input :)
2007-12-01T20:25:16 <dreimark> no only if its wrong rendered and he dislikes it
2007-12-01T20:26:23 <veerz> http://live.gnome.org/wiki/gnome/img/gnome-moin-diff.png thats the diff icon the gnome guys used, but it doesn't suggest much more than mine :/
2007-12-01T20:27:51 <ThomasWaldmann> well, it is a bit easier to see the two colours (we also use them in diff display)
2007-12-01T20:28:22 <veerz> yes, I've seen that
2007-12-01T20:29:10 <ThomasWaldmann> (but it should be rather left yellow and right green)
2007-12-01T20:29:35 <ThomasWaldmann> (not sure about RTL diff displays :)
2007-12-01T20:30:27 <dreimark> bbl -> office
2007-12-01T20:31:23 <ThomasWaldmann> veerz: did you try them on black bg also?
2007-12-01T20:31:55 <veerz> On a black background, yes, with a black moin theme, no
2007-12-01T20:35:46 <ThomasWaldmann> how about a optimized old diff icon?
2007-12-01T20:37:08 <ThomasWaldmann> veerz: btw, is that size the same as the old classic icons?
2007-12-01T20:37:41 <veerz> No, they are all 16x16 now
2007-12-01T20:38:52 <ThomasWaldmann> and the old were?
2007-12-01T20:38:55 <veerz> ThomasWaldmann, http://www.myimg.de/?img=screenshotclassicf6a67.png better?
2007-12-01T20:39:09 <veerz> ThomasWaldmann, mixed, most about 14x12
2007-12-01T20:40:06 <ThomasWaldmann> veerz: slightly better
2007-12-01T20:40:25 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe going a bit up in size would help
2007-12-01T20:41:13 <veerz> Hm, that would mean redoing the custom icons - I'm not so eager to do that
2007-12-01T20:41:23 <xorAxAx> grzywacz: the student merged your suggestions
2007-12-01T20:41:24 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe make that yellow and green part a bit more intense / use more area for it
2007-12-01T20:42:00 <ThomasWaldmann> veerz: what do you mean by custom icons?
2007-12-01T20:42:02 <xorAxAx> grzywacz: if you like his work, you may close the task item. does it make sense to create another one for polish?
2007-12-01T20:42:36 <veerz> ThomasWaldmann, some icons are from the tango project, they are avaible in various sizes
2007-12-01T20:42:55 <veerz> the other ones are made by me
2007-12-01T20:43:04 <xorAxAx> i think its fine to use 16x16 everywhere, no?
2007-12-01T20:43:19 <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: see those screenshots
2007-12-01T20:43:30 <ThomasWaldmann> some is a bit hard to recognize imho
2007-12-01T20:43:51 <xorAxAx> how is that related to the fact that he made them larger?
2007-12-01T20:44:18 <veerz> xorAxAx, I suggests to make them even larger ;)
2007-12-01T20:44:29 <ThomasWaldmann> the problem is maybe if you try to make them much prettier, but only a bit larger, they get harder to recognize
2007-12-01T20:44:45 <xorAxAx> veerz: might make sense, yes
2007-12-01T20:44:53 <veerz> Thats a funny thing about windows, every new version has larger icons :)
2007-12-01T20:46:28 <veerz> ThomasWaldmann, well, do you really think the 3d googgles do suggest a diff?
2007-12-01T20:47:09 <ThomasWaldmann> well, your eyes see a difference then :D
2007-12-01T20:47:27 <xorAxAx> not really, but rather some cannabis shop
2007-12-01T20:48:12 <ThomasWaldmann> of course they do not suggest directly the moin's diff display, but otoh, the icon is different enough from raw text icon to re-recognize it at a glance
2007-12-01T20:48:25 <dreimark> bb
2007-12-01T20:48:34 <veerz> Hm, maybe stronger colors will help
2007-12-01T20:48:40 <xorAxAx> veerz: yes
2007-12-01T20:48:41 <veerz> but the make it look ugly :/
2007-12-01T20:48:48 <xorAxAx> hmm?
2007-12-01T20:52:33 <ernestas> have a good evening (or whatever). I'll be back when I finish my current task (a presentation) and will definitely help your project :)
2007-12-01T20:53:01 <xorAxAx> cool#
2007-12-01T21:02:56 <veerz> http://www.myimg.de/?img=screenshotclassicaca8d.png I guess that suggests a diff now
2007-12-01T21:03:15 <veerz> at least for some one that has used trac, moin, winmerge etc. before
2007-12-01T21:06:03 <ThomasWaldmann> getting better :)
2007-12-01T21:06:30 <ThomasWaldmann> how about using exact same colours as our diff display?
2007-12-01T21:07:43 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, I ran recognize what the raw icon shows when getting in 15cm distance of the screen
2007-12-01T21:07:57 <ThomasWaldmann> but usually, I prefer a bit more distance :D
2007-12-01T21:13:58 <veerz> Just use a screen magnifier :D
2007-12-01T21:14:40 <veerz> ThomasWaldmann, I think the exact colors don't have enough contrast but I'll try it :)
2007-12-01T21:15:08 <dreimark> veerz: Attachfile icon ?
2007-12-01T21:16:14 <veerz> dreimark, ?
2007-12-01T21:17:57 <dreimark> in the past classic has had an attachfile icon too, but not the current one
2007-12-01T21:18:45 <veerz> There is an icon, but it looks like the theme doesn't use it
2007-12-01T21:18:50 <veerz> for what ever reason
2007-12-01T21:23:32 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: shall we revert the trying-to-do-the-impossible nesting stuff and try to use the here document like terminator approach?
2007-12-01T21:24:07 <ThomasWaldmann> (still open is the question about a good syntax)
2007-12-01T21:24:24 <ThomasWaldmann> (but could be just a parser param maybe)
2007-12-01T21:25:08 <xorAxAx> why is it impossible?
2007-12-01T21:25:29 <dreimark> I am undecided, because I am not sure if we want changes in SyntaxReference yet
2007-12-01T21:26:10 * xorAxAx doesnt think that it is impossible
2007-12-01T21:26:43 <dreimark> xorAxAx: the balancing of {{{ and }}} makes trouble
2007-12-01T21:26:52 <xorAxAx> balancing?
2007-12-01T21:27:05 <xorAxAx> you just need a simple pda that parses the pre section
2007-12-01T21:27:34 <xorAxAx> which means that you need a counter
2007-12-01T21:27:51 <xorAxAx> and if it dropped to 0, your pre section has ended and you can continue
2007-12-01T21:28:04 <xorAxAx> dreimark: where is the exact problem?
2007-12-01T21:28:08 <dreimark> I did count but the problem is that you can have more open {{{ as closed }}}
2007-12-01T21:28:22 <xorAxAx> why?
2007-12-01T21:28:23 <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: because (clean) nesting means to do assumptions about the inner of pre sections
2007-12-01T21:28:25 <dreimark> or more closed }}} as opened one
2007-12-01T21:28:33 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: yes
2007-12-01T21:28:41 <xorAxAx> dreimark: why? thats illegal markup :)
2007-12-01T21:28:54 <dreimark> yeah, but not in python code comments
2007-12-01T21:28:57 <xorAxAx> of course a graceful handling is not easy for a one pass parser
2007-12-01T21:29:11 <xorAxAx> dreimark: hmm
2007-12-01T21:29:15 <dreimark> http://moinmo.in/FeatureRequests/ParsersCanNotContain%7B%7B%7B%7D%7D%7D
2007-12-01T21:29:35 <dreimark> works
2007-12-01T21:29:36 <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: there can be random data in pre sections, no rules
2007-12-01T21:29:37 <xorAxAx> yes, that makes it undecidable again :)
2007-12-01T21:30:06 <ThomasWaldmann> thus we can push the problem to the editor
2007-12-01T21:30:07 <dreimark> http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/1.6WrongNesting doesnt
2007-12-01T21:30:08 <xorAxAx> so the question is, if one could think of a solution that works for 80% of the cases and handles the other 20% gracefully again
2007-12-01T21:30:19 <ThomasWaldmann> "choose something that works for your content"
2007-12-01T21:30:45 <xorAxAx> e.g. nesting could only work for {{{ and not {{{#!
2007-12-01T21:30:48 <ThomasWaldmann> wewru0324 is maybe a good terminator for some cases
2007-12-01T21:30:48 <xorAxAx> that should be fine
2007-12-01T21:30:54 <dreimark> currently I think we should output everything which is int pip of parser_line and let the user decide
2007-12-01T21:31:14 <dreimark> s/int pip/in the pipe/
2007-12-01T21:31:18 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: that doesnt work, your suggestion
2007-12-01T21:31:28 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: imagine a nesting of 3 wiki parsers
2007-12-01T21:31:40 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: and the most inner one uses a terminator of the 2. one
2007-12-01T21:31:52 <xorAxAx> one would need to fix up the terminator then, yes
2007-12-01T21:32:10 <xorAxAx> imho thats pretty complex for the user
2007-12-01T21:32:50 <ThomasWaldmann> well, thinking why the current stuff fails is also complex :)
2007-12-01T21:33:45 <xorAxAx> does the current solution allow nesting of parsers?
2007-12-01T21:33:50 <xorAxAx> then its different from my suggestion above
2007-12-01T21:33:51 <ThomasWaldmann> and if the user does such complex stuff, he maybe want to use some rather random terminators
2007-12-01T21:34:01 <ThomasWaldmann> that should be quite safe
2007-12-01T21:34:14 <xorAxAx> thats still ugly to read .)
2007-12-01T21:34:41 <ThomasWaldmann> only in the page src, not in the rendered view
2007-12-01T21:35:13 <xorAxAx> yes
2007-12-01T21:35:23 <xorAxAx> but a wiki is also about editing :)
2007-12-01T21:35:23 <ThomasWaldmann> you can use everything you like. if #3}}} works for you, use it.
2007-12-01T21:35:31 <xorAxAx> yes
2007-12-01T21:36:03 <xorAxAx> but that still doesnt fix the usual pre case
2007-12-01T21:36:10 <xorAxAx> where you dont want to redefine the terminator
2007-12-01T21:36:23 <ThomasWaldmann> that's an open question
2007-12-01T21:36:41 <xorAxAx> and, what happens if somebody doesnt supply terminators and the parsing ends up in something undefined?
2007-12-01T21:36:45 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, I would still use the }}} at the end
2007-12-01T21:36:50 <xorAxAx> how does the user realise how to fix it ...
2007-12-01T21:36:53 <ThomasWaldmann> just for symmetry
2007-12-01T21:38:09 <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, in fact that would mean we define a prefix to }}} to make it unique
2007-12-01T21:38:40 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe that then just should be a postfix to {{{
2007-12-01T21:38:43 <ThomasWaldmann> e.g.
2007-12-01T21:39:31 <xorAxAx> thats colliding with {{{foo}}} which is tt-typeset "foo"
2007-12-01T21:39:50 <ThomasWaldmann> hmm,yeah :|
2007-12-01T21:40:21 <xorAxAx> how about [[[ for nesting? :)
2007-12-01T21:40:24 <xorAxAx> (confusion!)
2007-12-01T21:40:37 <ThomasWaldmann> using a parser parameter is doing it at the wrong place somehow
2007-12-01T21:40:52 <ThomasWaldmann> (because not the parser itself needs it)
2007-12-01T21:42:16 <ThomasWaldmann> (at least for the way it works now)
2007-12-01T21:44:12 <veerz> ThomasWaldmann, moins diff colors are barely visible at that size
2007-12-01T21:44:16 <veerz> at least on my screen
2007-12-01T21:47:38 <ThomasWaldmann> veerz: do you have it online?
2007-12-01T21:48:26 <veerz> no, my workstation had a head crash so I'm sitting at my spare box, which isn't accesable from the internet
2007-12-01T21:48:31 <veerz> I can upload it though
2007-12-01T21:50:34 <veerz> http://img4.myimg.de/screenshotclassic08cdc.png
2007-12-01T22:02:45 <ThomasWaldmann> the green part is good visible, the yellow one is maybe a bit too small to be good visible
2007-12-01T22:22:45 <xorAxAx> hydro in #21 thinks that RC has 1000 characters, hmm, it only has 550
2007-12-01T22:25:17 <xorAxAx> but the other estimates look ok
2007-12-01T23:28:20 <dreimark> did we have had a change in acl settings on master
2007-12-01T23:28:34 <dreimark> because of those anonymous edits?
2007-12-01T23:29:55 <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2007-12-01T23:30:03 <ThomasWaldmann> you need to login
2007-12-01T23:35:58 <veerz> ThomasWaldmann, EasyToDo/DesignNewIconset states that I should upload the images in a zip file - what about the documentation, and the changes to themes/__init__.py (for the new icon sizes)
2007-12-01T23:37:37 <ThomasWaldmann> for the code, make a diff
2007-12-01T23:38:36 <veerz> can I place it all in the zip?
2007-12-01T23:38:53 <veerz> And could you give me the usernames of the guys working on http://moinmo.in/EasyToDo/ImproveStyleOfModernTheme ?
2007-12-01T23:39:24 <veerz> It might make sense to contact them so the icons fit in the new / improved themes :)
2007-12-01T23:40:05 <xorAxAx> veerz: you can see them yourself (we dont know more than you can see) :)
2007-12-01T23:40:29 <xorAxAx> its task 76
2007-12-01T23:40:50 <xorAxAx> hmm
2007-12-01T23:40:53 <veerz> xorAxAx, I can't see their mail addresses nor anything else
2007-12-01T23:40:57 <xorAxAx> veerz: we neither
2007-12-01T23:41:18 <xorAxAx> so the only possibility is to drop a comment in his ticket
2007-12-01T23:41:22 <veerz> How do you verify that the students have a wiki account then? :)
2007-12-01T23:41:41 <xorAxAx> the account is not important, the homepage is :)
2007-12-01T23:42:02 <xorAxAx> and how we handle this has to be decided when the first time frame runs out, which is on tuesday i think :)
2007-12-01T23:42:50 <xorAxAx> the problem is that the students arent very tightly bound to us as a project and dont need to communicate at all
2007-12-01T23:42:54 <xorAxAx> i think thats rather bad
2007-12-01T23:43:06 <xorAxAx> other projects force the students to create a discussion topic in a form
2007-12-01T23:43:22 <xorAxAx> forum
2007-12-01T23:43:28 <xorAxAx> i wonder why it works for them
2007-12-01T23:44:37 <veerz> Hm isn't the purpose of the whole thing that people DO get in touch?
2007-12-01T23:45:16 <veerz> And hah! Now i found the 'attach a file' linke too :)
2007-12-01T23:45:23 <veerz> s/linke/link/
2007-12-01T23:48:05 <xorAxAx> veerz: yes, and we still wonder how we can force the people not to finish their tasks without any biliteral communication :)
2007-12-01T23:52:49 <veerz> xorAxAx, just remove portions of the task descriptions so they are forced to ask :D
2007-12-01T23:53:17 <xorAxAx> "you can get every second word of the description by coming into our irc channel"
2007-12-01T23:53:27 <veerz> heh
2007-12-01T23:53:48 <veerz> btw, what do you do for a living?
2007-12-01T23:53:53 <dreimark> issue 82: looks to me ok
2007-12-01T23:54:55 <xorAxAx> veerz: i study
2007-12-01T23:55:01 <xorAxAx> pretty money draining
2007-12-01T23:55:47 <xorAxAx> and then i do small python consluting stuff mostly
2007-12-01T23:56:47 <veerz> xorAxAx, what subject? :)
2007-12-01T23:56:58 <xorAxAx> veerz: of what?
2007-12-01T23:57:00 <xorAxAx> my studies?
2007-12-01T23:57:03 <veerz> jep
2007-12-01T23:57:36 <xorAxAx> informatik
2007-12-01T23:57:49 <veerz> I could have guessed that :)
2007-12-01T23:58:34 <xorAxAx> minor media sciences MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2007-12-01 (last edited 2007-12-22 22:45:02 by IrcLogImporter)
