MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2007-05-29

2007-05-29T00:22:12  <grzywacz> Is it ok if I extract the notification code to MoinMoin/notification and construct a more general framework in there?
2007-05-29T00:22:21  <grzywacz> It's just a question of preferred location. :)
2007-05-29T00:22:56  <xorAxAx> hmm
2007-05-29T00:23:05  <xorAxAx> ok
2007-05-29T00:23:54  <ThomasWaldmann> grzywacz: maybe you should first specify what that exactly means :)
2007-05-29T00:25:33  <ThomasWaldmann> hey, we are below 100k max pagesize again :-P
2007-05-29T00:25:42  <grzywacz> ThomasWaldmann, currently notification is handled by the page editor code, if memory serves me right. And it only sends email. I need to add jabber support, and adding it on top of email is kind of ugly, so the idea is to abstract the notification "framework". This also makes it easier to send notifications from actions.
2007-05-29T00:26:18  <grzywacz> The question was about the locations where this moved (and improved) code should live.
2007-05-29T00:26:22  <grzywacz> s/ons/on/
2007-05-29T00:29:01  <grzywacz> ThomasWaldmann, should I explain further?
2007-05-29T00:31:42  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: what changed?
2007-05-29T00:32:32  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: splitted MoinMoinQuestions
2007-05-29T00:33:20  <ThomasWaldmann> grzywacz: so it will be a general thing, not only for SAVE?
2007-05-29T00:34:39  <grzywacz> How about Attach?
2007-05-29T00:34:48  <grzywacz> Yes, I think making it general makes sense.
2007-05-29T00:36:36  <ThomasWaldmann> and then it is maybe not only about notification (of humans)
2007-05-29T00:37:06  <ThomasWaldmann> but about some kind of events happening and stuff getting triggered
2007-05-29T00:37:17  <grzywacz> Yes, but further usage is out of my scope atm. :)
2007-05-29T00:37:55  <ThomasWaldmann> it's just that we dont have to rename it later :)
2007-05-29T00:38:22  <grzywacz> "notification" sounds quite general to me ;)
2007-05-29T00:40:21  <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmo.in/EventSystem some old discussion about this topic
2007-05-29T00:41:36  <ThomasWaldmann> grzywacz: notification can be either general (one entitiy notifying some other entity) or special (savepage notifying someone by mail/xmpp)
2007-05-29T00:43:52  <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmo.in/IrcEventSystem some other stuff
2007-05-29T00:45:50  <xorAxAx> the eventsystem ideas didnt really go far enough for me  back then
2007-05-29T00:46:16  <grzywacz> The idea seems nice, but at the same is rather too complicated in my case.
2007-05-29T00:46:29  <grzywacz> Especially the transactions. ;)
2007-05-29T00:46:55  <xorAxAx> and the question of orchestration and registration remains unsolved
2007-05-29T00:47:19  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: if you adhere to the observer pattern, it should be easy to extend
2007-05-29T00:48:04  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, is it ok if notifications "plugins" register themselves with the manager? Or should I do something nasty like auto-loading, mentioned on the EvenSystem page?
2007-05-29T00:48:44  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: they register themselves
2007-05-29T00:48:48  <xorAxAx> cf. observer pattern
2007-05-29T00:49:01  <grzywacz> Very well.
2007-05-29T00:49:52  <grzywacz> So maybe MoinMoin/events? :-)
2007-05-29T00:50:07  <ThomasWaldmann> grzywacz: event/ plugin dir and just implement as far as you need for notifications
2007-05-29T00:50:43  <grzywacz> So be it, thanks.
2007-05-29T00:51:55  <zenhase> genshis default MarkupTemplate does not cope with html4.01, it uses expat for parsing
2007-05-29T00:52:08  <zenhase> (or more specific the expat-based XMLParser)
2007-05-29T00:52:38  <zenhase> *subclass ... def __init__ ... strike*
2007-05-29T00:52:38  <grzywacz> Side note: the EventSystem page mentions an interesting idea of aborting actions via event handling plugins, I think this could be easily done by implementing by generating special exceptions from within plugins.
2007-05-29T01:17:24  <grzywacz> Geez, I'm beginning to hate postfix...
2007-05-29T01:18:21  <ThomasWaldmann> grzywacz: then use sendmail for a while <eg>
2007-05-29T01:18:48  <grzywacz> Haha.
2007-05-29T01:19:14  <grzywacz> No. It's just it append a cryptic .localdomain to TO address of every email without FQDN it receives.
2007-05-29T01:19:53  <grzywacz> And as such it fails completly for semi-local delivery. ;)
2007-05-29T01:39:15  <grzywacz> argh
2007-05-29T01:56:16  <zenhase> hmm
2007-05-29T01:56:36  <zenhase> i made this a nono in my postfix-config
2007-05-29T01:56:56  <zenhase> fixes some spam-problems
2007-05-29T01:58:50  <zenhase> what do you mean by semi-local delivery?
2007-05-29T01:59:32  <grzywacz> Non-local (ie not simply moving mail to the mbox) to 127.0.0.1
2007-05-29T01:59:34  <grzywacz> Anyway, it's fixed.
2007-05-29T02:26:49  <zenhase> *yawn*
2007-05-29T02:27:08  <zenhase> the weather-change puts me to sleep
2007-05-29T02:27:16  <zenhase> see you in the morning
2007-05-29T09:05:25  <grzywacz> moin
2007-05-29T09:07:51  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2007-05-29T09:09:36  <grzywacz> I managed to burn (?) the fuse last night by turning the light in my room on, and that was it for the first night of coding. ;-S
2007-05-29T09:11:36  <ThomasWaldmann> no automatic fuses?
2007-05-29T09:12:24  <grzywacz> I have automatic in my flat, but the one burned was outside, and was not automatic.
2007-05-29T09:13:52  * ThomasWaldmann .oO(0wned) :)
2007-05-29T09:14:38  <grzywacz> haha, yeah ;)
2007-05-29T09:16:26  <ThomasWaldmann> my laptop used to run 5+ hrs when the batteries were fresh.
2007-05-29T09:16:52  <ThomasWaldmann> but nowadays much less.
2007-05-29T09:17:16  <ThomasWaldmann> brb
2007-05-29T09:20:24  <grzywacz> Well, I have an ups, and it surely can hold up to 20 minutes or so, but it's not useful as a mean of prolonging work in power failure conditions. Good thing I could save some bits and pieces already written. ;)
2007-05-29T09:41:55  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, when designing the event system, keep in mind that we have cgi (multi-process, short running), multithreading and multiprocess (long running) servers
2007-05-29T10:28:55  <xorAxAx> ah, seems to work again
2007-05-29T10:49:15  <dreimark> we should better speak from Snowball stemming instead of Xapian stemming or ?
2007-05-29T10:49:36  <zenhase> good morning
2007-05-29T11:01:08  <dreimark> in SystemInfo
2007-05-29T11:08:25  <CIA-27> moin: Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> * 2086:7fa4e18630d9 1.6/MoinMoin/search/Xapian.py: Xapain: raise exception TypeError if Stemmer fails
2007-05-29T11:08:38  <CIA-27> moin: Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> * 2087:e3e033fdfdac 1.6/MoinMoin/macro/SystemInfo.py: SystemInfo: info for stemmer snowball added
2007-05-29T11:59:52  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: yeah, or even of "PyStemmer" in case it has a different version number than snowball stemming algos
2007-05-29T12:00:52  <ThomasWaldmann> the first item is maybe better labelled "Stemming for Xapian" or the connection to cfg.xapian_stemming is maybe a bit far fetched for the user
2007-05-29T12:05:09  <neagulm> hello
2007-05-29T12:06:58  <ThomasWaldmann> moin neagulm
2007-05-29T12:52:18  <dreimark> moin neagulm
2007-05-29T12:56:23  <CIA-27> moin: Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> * 2088:faf9418ee30d 1.6/MoinMoin/macro/SystemInfo.py: SystemInfo: labels for stemming renamed
2007-05-29T13:00:05  <CIA-27> moin: Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> * 2089:b2fafdfc6e53 1.6/MoinMoin/macro/SystemInfo.py: SystemInfo: !PyStemmer
2007-05-29T13:07:28  <neagulm> hello dreimark
2007-05-29T13:08:54  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: which browser could be used for testing MoinMoinBugs/1.6ErrorWhenFindNoResults ?
2007-05-29T13:08:57  <dreimark> hi neagulm
2007-05-29T13:09:43  <dreimark> where to get spain
2007-05-29T13:13:34  <neagulm> dreimark, the classifier brings me crazy: i get a probability of 4.440....
2007-05-29T13:14:20  <neagulm> dreimark, I am searching from 12:00 EET for the bug in my code...
2007-05-29T13:16:28  <dreimark> still 2hours? that's not long I try to understand since some days (but not continous) why this fails  MoinMoinBugs/1.6NoURLsAfterBlock
2007-05-29T13:17:07  <dreimark> without breaking another part
2007-05-29T13:18:01  <johill> dreimark: yeah, odd bug really
2007-05-29T13:18:47  <dreimark> johill: and this http://test.wikiwikiweb.de/ReimarBauer/Exa1
2007-05-29T13:19:14  <johill> huh
2007-05-29T13:19:21  <johill> that's even weirder
2007-05-29T13:32:02  <neagulm> to much work... I think that I need a new mathematics course...
2007-05-29T13:32:32  <neagulm> the problem was that I thought that 4.4408920985e-16 is >1  :((
2007-05-29T13:32:51  <neagulm> i didn't see for 2 hours the ...e-16 at the end
2007-05-29T13:34:25  <dreimark> neagulm: or some glasses ;)
2007-05-29T13:35:18  <dreimark> I would prefer icons for that numbers or percent and less digits
2007-05-29T13:38:12  <neagulm> yes, I think that i will use something like "70% SPAM", "70% HAM", etc
2007-05-29T13:38:16  <neagulm> depending on the value
2007-05-29T13:39:27  <neagulm> and change the position of the status... Currently is at the bottom and is not visible immediately by the user
2007-05-29T13:46:22  <dreimark> :)
2007-05-29T13:53:53  <neagulm> and another problem: this days I will need help in designing the plug-ins for the classification part. We might need to create a new type of plug-in (Eg. classifier)
2007-05-29T13:54:02  <neagulm> brb
2007-05-29T14:04:32  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: firefox. I guess it does not depend on the browser, but on the language setting of it.
2007-05-29T15:34:40  <grzywacz> re
2007-05-29T15:34:59  <xorAxAx> moin student
2007-05-29T15:35:12  <grzywacz> Hello mentor!
2007-05-29T15:35:26  <xorAxAx> what was my full title again? :)
2007-05-29T15:35:36  <grzywacz> HMRE
2007-05-29T15:35:41  <xorAxAx> thank you
2007-05-29T15:36:24  <xorAxAx> what does it mean again? :)
2007-05-29T15:36:43  <grzywacz> "His Most Reverend Excellency" of course.
2007-05-29T15:36:46  <grzywacz> ;->
2007-05-29T15:36:49  <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-05-29T15:37:02  * grzywacz is fast with grep :-P
2007-05-29T15:37:34  <xorAxAx> hehe, my sql server is too slow :)
2007-05-29T16:29:55  <grzywacz> Making this event-handling stuff "general" is not so easy as it might seem at first. ;)
2007-05-29T16:38:47  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, ping? :)
2007-05-29T16:50:43  <xorAxAx> pong
2007-05-29T16:50:45  <xorAxAx> just ask :)
2007-05-29T16:51:51  <grzywacz> ok
2007-05-29T16:54:30  <grzywacz> I'm slightly worried about objects being referenced by events and their (im)mutability. Let's say that I want to have a PageSavedEvent of sorts. Obviously, it would be good if such object carried a reference to a page being modified. But then, if events are to be handled synchronously, someone could modify this page, leading to a changed (corrupted) state when event handler returns to some the calling code.
2007-05-29T16:54:59  <grzywacz> Maybe it's a better idea to abandon the "optimisation" given by passing objects in favour of things like page name?
2007-05-29T16:55:01  <grzywacz> :\
2007-05-29T16:56:36  <grzywacz> On the other hand, events could be queued and executed at the end of request handling process, but this reduces functionality.
2007-05-29T16:57:27  <dreimark> johill: I guess I have fixed both {{{ ... {{{ \n}}} }}} bugs
2007-05-29T16:59:31  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: well, currently page objects dont have a state that could lead to corruption
2007-05-29T16:59:48  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: it might be different with lanius' code, though
2007-05-29T17:00:05  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: you could ask him about that, how to represent an item at an API boundary
2007-05-29T17:00:18  <grzywacz> Would be good if our branches could be merged without some major headaches or hidden bugs.
2007-05-29T17:00:22  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, will do.
2007-05-29T17:09:44  <CIA-27> moin: Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> * 2090:94e1b5ba86e8 1.6/MoinMoin/parser/text_moin_wiki.py: text_moin_wiki: bug fix of {{{ aaa {{{\n }}} bbb }}}
2007-05-29T17:09:45  <CIA-27> moin: Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> * 2091:b15b0248e1fa 1.6/MoinMoin/parser/text_moin_wiki.py: text_moin_wiki:bug fix of NoURLsAfterBlock
2007-05-29T17:53:42  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: calling renderText from the parser is somewhat weird %)
2007-05-29T18:00:59  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: yeah could be improved
2007-05-29T18:15:36  <dreimark> currently I am happy that  I found where it happens
2007-05-29T18:15:40  <dreimark> and why
2007-05-29T18:17:23  <dreimark> bbl some hours
2007-05-29T18:19:37  <grzywacz> I already feel I'm learning a lot, even though it's kind of slow atm. 8)
2007-05-29T18:53:23  <grzywacz> ...
2007-05-29T18:53:45  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: whats slow? :)
2007-05-29T18:55:02  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, I am, reading the code that may be useful and stuff
2007-05-29T18:55:30  <xorAxAx> yes, code reading is useful :)
2007-05-29T18:55:56  <grzywacz> ;p
2007-05-29T18:59:44  <xorAxAx> but if you have any question, just ask
2007-05-29T19:02:19  <grzywacz> Sure, but I'll prolly ask for comments on my code soon. ;-)
2007-05-29T19:12:07  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, http://hg.alexanderweb.de/moin-1.7-jabber-knowak/summary
2007-05-29T19:12:41  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, I'm kind of playing with it atm, but the idea is there. Nothing fancy, just a list of handlers loaded from plugins
2007-05-29T19:12:57  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, each one is asked to handle an event
2007-05-29T19:15:52  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: i would not make Event page specific
2007-05-29T19:16:01  <xorAxAx> i would call it observable
2007-05-29T19:16:41  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, and pass event-specific information in subclasses?
2007-05-29T19:16:50  <xorAxAx> and then, you usually want to have an event handler to call back into your code somehow to register itself at the correct point
2007-05-29T19:16:59  <xorAxAx> because not all handlers might be interested in page changes
2007-05-29T19:17:07  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: yes
2007-05-29T19:17:10  <grzywacz> Ok.
2007-05-29T19:17:21  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, the way it is now, handler checks if it's interested in an event of particular type
2007-05-29T19:17:28  <xorAxAx> hmm
2007-05-29T19:17:48  <grzywacz> It can, of course, be checked beforehand using some data provided by the plugin.
2007-05-29T19:17:52  <xorAxAx> btw, use isinstance and not __class__ :)
2007-05-29T19:17:58  <grzywacz> hah, ok
2007-05-29T19:18:06  <grzywacz> 8)
2007-05-29T19:18:26  <xorAxAx> hmm, well, as long as we wont have a speed bottleneck, i think its ok to filter late
2007-05-29T19:18:41  <grzywacz> We shall see.
2007-05-29T19:18:58  <xorAxAx> yes
2007-05-29T19:19:05  <grzywacz> We may create a dict of event handlers, with keys being event types.
2007-05-29T19:19:14  <xorAxAx> ok, so its just the isinstance and the s/page/observable/ change
2007-05-29T19:19:32  <grzywacz> Right.
2007-05-29T19:19:52  <grzywacz> I'll then try to move the email notification stuff out from page editor and see how much trouble it is.
2007-05-29T19:20:20  <grzywacz> btw. is it also so damn hot in Germany? :\
2007-05-29T19:20:35  <xorAxAx> no, its wet and rainy
2007-05-29T19:20:39  <xorAxAx> 9°
2007-05-29T19:20:42  <xorAxAx> i am 99% wet
2007-05-29T19:21:58  <xorAxAx> wanted to be in uni at 18:00, forgot that the last 30-minutly bus went 3 hours ago, went to the bikeshed, realised that i forgot my bike at the trainstation 2 days ago, went back jogging there then cycled to the university noticing that my jacket is not water-proof
2007-05-29T19:22:10  <grzywacz> It's raining here now and then, but it's 25° now and reaches way above 30° midday...
2007-05-29T19:22:21  <grzywacz> lol
2007-05-29T19:22:24  <xorAxAx> oh well, i had 35° in my rooms a week ago
2007-05-29T19:35:03  <grzywacz> Hm, any ideas on possible way of making communication somehow bidirectional? As it is now, saving a page with email notifications enabled generates a list of users who have been sent a message. This can't easily by done with events.
2007-05-29T19:35:27  <grzywacz> Changing the event (observable) object, by adding some information to it seems fugly.
2007-05-29T19:39:05  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: every handle call generates a list of messages
2007-05-29T19:39:11  <xorAxAx> and these messages are passed back
2007-05-29T19:40:46  <grzywacz> This is not a pure observer pattern, though. ;)
2007-05-29T20:07:50  * neagulm is installing his brand new laptop... special for Google SoC
2007-05-29T20:14:52  <grzywacz> O_o;
2007-05-29T20:24:18  <dreimark> hehe
2007-05-29T20:38:36  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2007-05-29T20:43:16  <ThomasWaldmann> neagulm: hey :) what is it?
2007-05-29T20:44:17  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: true
2007-05-29T20:49:07  <neagulm> ThomasWaldmann, HP Compaq nx7400 with 2G of ram and intel core 2 duo at 2GHZ
2007-05-29T20:49:17  <xorAxAx> ugh, no thinkpad :)
2007-05-29T20:49:54  * xorAxAx registers a  -1 on the SOC points sheet of neagulm :)
2007-05-29T20:51:37  * zenhase hides
2007-05-29T20:51:57  <neagulm> xorAxAx, , It is not my personal laptop... it's eAustria's...
2007-05-29T20:52:23  <xorAxAx> neagulm: ah, what is "eAustria"?
2007-05-29T20:52:27  <neagulm> xorAxAx, after finishing with SoC I will work for eAustria institute Timisoara
2007-05-29T20:52:37  <xorAxAx> ok :)
2007-05-29T20:52:44  * zenhase heads for entropia now for a night of template hacking
2007-05-29T20:53:33  <ThomasWaldmann> neagulm: 2..4x as much as localhost :)
2007-05-29T20:54:19  <neagulm> xorAxAx, eAustria is a join institute by the government of Austria, Romania, West University of Timisoara and the Technical University of Timisoara
2007-05-29T20:54:31  <neagulm> ThomasWaldmann, "2..4x" ? I don't understand
2007-05-29T20:54:39  <neagulm> xorAxAx, join=joint
2007-05-29T20:54:47  <xorAxAx> sounds good
2007-05-29T20:55:08  <xorAxAx> how far is Timisoara from your town?
2007-05-29T20:55:17  <xorAxAx> or is it your uni?
2007-05-29T20:55:55  <neagulm> xorAxAx, I am from Resita but I'm a student in Timisoara at the West University
2007-05-29T20:56:00  <xorAxAx> ah, ok
2007-05-29T20:58:19  <neagulm> xorAxAx, the cool thing is that for the summer I will do my SoC work at eAustria, and one of my colleagues from eAustria is working for SoC too. He is working for the ruby project
2007-05-29T20:58:28  <xorAxAx> ah, cool
2007-05-29T21:01:03  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: why is #acl MoinPagesEditorGroup:read,write,delete,revert All:read on MPEG?
2007-05-29T21:02:31  <ThomasWaldmann> so that anyone in the group can add new members
2007-05-29T21:03:01  <xorAxAx> well, it was All:write at some time, no?
2007-05-29T21:03:48  <xorAxAx> ah, you had a revert problem on that page
2007-05-29T21:03:54  <dreimark> xorAxAx: spam
2007-05-29T21:03:54  <xorAxAx> should be fixed by 1.6
2007-05-29T21:04:08  <xorAxAx> dreimark: where?
2007-05-29T21:04:14  <dreimark> on that page
2007-05-29T21:04:18  <dreimark> in the past
2007-05-29T21:05:27  <xorAxAx> dreimark: i can only see revert issues
2007-05-29T21:06:18  <dreimark> ehem, you are right I meant that
2007-05-29T21:07:10  <dreimark> neagulm: which OS or distro do you install ?
2007-05-29T21:10:13  <xorAxAx> (which is fixed by revoking revert)
2007-05-29T21:10:21  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: how about adding All:write to the page?
2007-05-29T21:15:30  <neagulm> dreimark, Ubuntu
2007-05-29T21:15:46  <neagulm> dreimark, Ubuntu Feisty
2007-05-29T21:15:51  <dreimark> :)
2007-05-29T21:16:15  <neagulm> dreimark, what are you using ?
2007-05-29T21:16:36  <dreimark> debian at home and suse at work
2007-05-29T21:18:34  <dreimark> and maemo I should not forget
2007-05-29T21:18:41  <neagulm> dreimark, aha ok
2007-05-29T21:19:45  <neagulm> ok, i download'ed feisty. I will have to sign-out, remove Vista and install Feisty...
2007-05-29T21:19:48  <neagulm> bbl
2007-05-29T21:20:44  <dreimark> cu
2007-05-29T21:51:31  <grzywacz> Heh, moved email notification out of PageEditor and it actually works.
2007-05-29T21:55:07  <xorAxAx> did you introduce messaging?
2007-05-29T21:55:19  <grzywacz> Erm?
2007-05-29T21:55:34  <grzywacz> PageEditor sends an event, and it's being processed.
2007-05-29T21:56:00  <grzywacz> The send mail code is, of course, almost a copy&paste from PageEditor, but it works. This is encouraging. ;)
2007-05-29T21:56:34  <xorAxAx> i mean, do you return a list of messages?
2007-05-29T21:56:51  <grzywacz> Yes, a list of messages. As strings.
2007-05-29T21:57:09  <grzywacz> It's being built by appending messages returned by all handlers.
2007-05-29T21:58:26  <xorAxAx> strings?
2007-05-29T21:58:33  <xorAxAx> i suggest some message class
2007-05-29T21:58:43  <xorAxAx> with subclasses :)
2007-05-29T21:58:59  <xorAxAx> (symmetric API design :))
2007-05-29T21:59:02  <grzywacz> Maybe later. I prefer to get an outline first. :p
2007-05-29T21:59:07  <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-05-29T22:00:12  <dreimark> bbl
2007-05-29T22:30:51  * grzywacz improves his knowledge on multithreaded programming in python and xmlrpc
2007-05-29T22:31:32  <xorAxAx> hehe