MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2007-04-12

2007-04-12T00:17:35  <lanius> hola
2007-04-12T00:18:27  <dreimark> moin
2007-04-12T00:20:47  <ThomasWaldmann> lanius: on your storage refactoring page, there are still pages and attachments?
2007-04-12T00:25:04  <lanius> yeah, but i'm not quite sure, neither for nor against it
2007-04-12T00:27:50  <lanius> i think somehow there must be
2007-04-12T00:27:55  <lanius> think about a request
2007-04-12T00:28:01  <lanius> the storage handler gets the request
2007-04-12T00:28:05  <lanius> he creates the Storage Item
2007-04-12T00:28:11  <lanius> then it checks the mimetype
2007-04-12T00:28:19  <lanius> if the mimetype is text/wiki it will create a page object
2007-04-12T00:28:31  <lanius> if the mimetype is text/user it will create a user object
2007-04-12T00:28:36  <lanius> otherwise it will create an attachement object
2007-04-12T00:31:50  <ThomasWaldmann> the decision whether you want an item or a user will not be done by the storage handler
2007-04-12T00:32:04  <ThomasWaldmann> but by code calling it
2007-04-12T00:33:43  <lanius> it could be done by the storage handler, what would be arguments for your way, what for my?
2007-04-12T00:34:27  <ThomasWaldmann> the code in User wants to have user profile data, not anything else
2007-04-12T00:34:46  <ThomasWaldmann> so you know that before even calling storage code
2007-04-12T00:35:25  <dreimark> we do need for alt text a description for each attachment some ideas about that StorageRefactoring/ItemHierarchy
2007-04-12T00:36:11  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: that will be item metadata, if lanius and me succeed
2007-04-12T00:36:27  <dreimark> fine
2007-04-12T00:36:43  <lanius> yeah, but it knows that the object it requests will be a user object
2007-04-12T00:37:31  <lanius> still you could do a requestUser, requestPage and requestAttachement method in the storage handler
2007-04-12T00:37:43  <lanius> which would return the corresponding object
2007-04-12T00:38:17  <ThomasWaldmann> but we wont have attachments any more
2007-04-12T00:39:07  <ThomasWaldmann> nor pages, both will be items
2007-04-12T00:39:21  <lanius> but you need different operations on a user item and on a page item
2007-04-12T00:40:17  <ThomasWaldmann> that is either highlevel code or storage implementation detail
2007-04-12T00:40:41  <lanius> yeah, higher level, and a page would be the higher level
2007-04-12T00:41:01  * lanius is wondering if there is any type of casting in python
2007-04-12T00:41:04  <ThomasWaldmann> highlevel code will either do getItem(name) or getUserProfile(name)
2007-04-12T00:41:37  <lanius> that's what i meant with the requestXYZ methods
2007-04-12T00:41:42  <ThomasWaldmann> getItem will return data and metadata for item "name"
2007-04-12T00:41:59  <ThomasWaldmann> and then we see how to handle that mimetype
2007-04-12T00:43:06  <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/StorageRefactoring/SOC2007 are we both talking of that page?
2007-04-12T00:43:20  <lanius> yeah we are
2007-04-12T00:43:43  <lanius> my idea just was to add the getItem and getUserProfile methods to the StorageHandler
2007-04-12T00:44:02  <lanius> that would mean we kill the attachement object, but not the page and user object
2007-04-12T00:44:35  <ThomasWaldmann> (00:20) < ThomasWal> lanius: on your storage refactoring page, there are still pages and attachments?
2007-04-12T00:44:46  <ThomasWaldmann> this was the initial question :)
2007-04-12T00:45:00  <lanius> yes, and that's what i'm still not sure about
2007-04-12T00:45:04  <lanius> haven't thought to deep about it
2007-04-12T00:45:17  <lanius> maybe there are operations that are different maybe not
2007-04-12T00:45:58  <ThomasWaldmann> for the storage level: s/page/item/, s/attachment//, s/title/name/, s/java/python/ >:)
2007-04-12T00:46:27  <lanius> at least the last :D
2007-04-12T00:46:45  <lanius> at it's not even real java
2007-04-12T00:47:22  <ThomasWaldmann> and the current confusing Page thing (whole thing as well as specific revision sometimes) should be made more clear
2007-04-12T00:47:40  <ThomasWaldmann> at least on the storage level
2007-04-12T00:47:46  <lanius> yeah page is wrong there
2007-04-12T00:48:19  <ThomasWaldmann> (i mean the current Page class in last phrase)
2007-04-12T00:49:39  <lanius> well, i have to finish the storage interface, after that we can talk about the storage handler and that will make more clear what else belongs there
2007-04-12T00:50:20  <lanius> what do you think, should it be possible to remove only a complete object or even a revision
2007-04-12T00:50:26  <lanius> same for writing/overwriting
2007-04-12T00:50:33  <lanius> and setting Metadata
2007-04-12T00:51:13  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe we need ops on 3 levels: namespace (list, rename, exist, ...), item (listrevs, nuke, ...), itemrev (get, put, ....)
2007-04-12T00:52:05  <grzywacz> Can this discussion in any way influence my project? :)
2007-04-12T00:52:20  <lanius> basicly that's what i have, no i need details
2007-04-12T00:52:24  <lanius> now
2007-04-12T00:52:28  <ThomasWaldmann> you will have your own branch
2007-04-12T00:53:44  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: yes :-)
2007-04-12T00:53:46  <grzywacz> I know, I just wonder if I should pay close attention to it, even though I'm rather tired. :)
2007-04-12T00:53:59  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: i assume you want to modify pages :-)
2007-04-12T00:54:04  <xorAxAx> currently its a mess :)
2007-04-12T00:54:30  <ThomasWaldmann> lanius: the storage api needs to be able to do all things we need
2007-04-12T00:54:55  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, right, after I have notificiations working I wanted to add some functionality which would modify pages
2007-04-12T00:55:05  <ThomasWaldmann> although a wiki page is never nuked completely by a wiki user, we may need it for the wiki admin
2007-04-12T00:55:43  <ThomasWaldmann> although a old wiki pagerev is never removed by a wiki user, we may need it for admin/auto purge of old stuff
2007-04-12T00:56:10  <xorAxAx> good night
2007-04-12T00:56:15  <grzywacz> night xorAxAx
2007-04-12T00:56:16  <lanius> good nicht xorAxAx
2007-04-12T00:56:23  <ThomasWaldmann> gn xorAxAx
2007-04-12T00:56:28  <xorAxAx> grzywacz wins
2007-04-12T00:56:34  <grzywacz> ?;)
2007-04-12T00:56:41  <xorAxAx> you were the first :-)
2007-04-12T00:56:52  <grzywacz> Ah, yes. Experience from #wesnoth-dev pays off. :P
2007-04-12T00:56:54  <grzywacz> :D
2007-04-12T01:01:27  <neagulm> good night  xorAxAx!
2007-04-12T01:02:19  <ThomasWaldmann> lanius: we also might want to have a bit more OO interface
2007-04-12T01:03:47  <ThomasWaldmann> thus not getPage(title) and listRevs(title), but p = getPage(title) ; p.listRevs()
2007-04-12T01:04:45  <lanius> that's what would be in the Storage Item
2007-04-12T01:05:05  <lanius> but to make it easy to implement another storage backend only one interface would be easier at this part
2007-04-12T01:05:51  <lanius> brb
2007-04-12T01:16:48  <lanius> re
2007-04-12T01:17:25  <lanius> you see my problem with the OO interface?
2007-04-12T01:25:57  <lanius> ThomasWaldmann: ping?
2007-04-12T01:33:50  * lanius thinks he fell asleep
2007-04-12T01:33:59  <lanius> ThomasWaldmann: please post your opinions on the page
2007-04-12T01:34:02  <lanius> see u tomorrow
2007-04-12T01:36:08  <grzywacz> btw. there's a page with list of installed themes on the moin wiki, some of them are *really* awful... How about removing them in favour of some better ones? ;)
2007-04-12T01:36:38  <xorAxAx> you mean the one with screenshots?
2007-04-12T01:36:39  <flowhase> which ones do you mean especially? :>
2007-04-12T01:37:09  <grzywacz> No, the one where you can change theme.
2007-04-12T01:37:41  <grzywacz> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemesMacro
2007-04-12T01:37:42  <grzywacz> Here.
2007-04-12T01:38:02  <xorAxAx> ah
2007-04-12T01:38:07  <xorAxAx> well, thats a task for thomas
2007-04-12T01:38:13  <xorAxAx> they arent even up to date
2007-04-12T01:38:17  <grzywacz> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemesMacro?action=theme&theme=monomoin
2007-04-12T01:38:21  <grzywacz> Great success.
2007-04-12T01:38:22  <grzywacz> ;)
2007-04-12T01:38:35  <xorAxAx> yes, its outdated
2007-04-12T01:38:40  <xorAxAx> the current version is working
2007-04-12T01:38:46  <grzywacz> So it seems. :)
2007-04-12T01:38:49  <xorAxAx> and users are loving it
2007-04-12T01:38:59  <flowhase> hmm
2007-04-12T01:39:16  <grzywacz> Making some of those featured on screenshots available would be nice.
2007-04-12T01:39:30  <flowhase> i could be sneaky and change our entropia-mediawiki to moinmoin without anybody noticing ;>
2007-04-12T01:40:10  <grzywacz> You mean with the mediawiki theme?
2007-04-12T01:40:15  <grzywacz> Sneaky indeed. ;)
2007-04-12T01:41:33  <flowhase> well
2007-04-12T01:41:46  <flowhase> but as already said ... gpn6 will have a moinmoin intranet
2007-04-12T01:42:24  <flowhase> now i just need some guys to build a pizza delivery plugin
2007-04-12T08:03:23  <grzywacz> moin and off to uni ;)
2007-04-12T08:24:42  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2007-04-12T08:30:56  <ThomasWaldmann> ok, looks like the final slot assignment is there
2007-04-12T09:15:11  <dreimark> moin
2007-04-12T09:19:07  <ThomasWaldmann> moin dreimark
2007-04-12T09:19:18  <dreimark> greetings from cologne
2007-04-12T09:19:54  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: i mailed googled about your (un)mentoring problems. I guess it is purely cosmetic (and if it is not, they will help fixing it).
2007-04-12T09:20:11  <dreimark> I did a bug report too
2007-04-12T09:20:31  <ThomasWaldmann> looks like accepted students got their acceptance email now. See also:
2007-04-12T09:20:38  <ThomasWaldmann> http://code.google.com/soc/moin/about.html
2007-04-12T09:21:54  <dreimark> what is this red sign about
2007-04-12T09:23:03  <ThomasWaldmann> it shall show some map location when it is fixed
2007-04-12T09:28:50  <ThomasWaldmann> flowhase: i need your ssh pubkey attached to an email
2007-04-12T09:29:02  <dreimark> wikimedia gots 0 slots ?
2007-04-12T09:29:29  <ThomasWaldmann> no, 3. they just failed to assign mentors, so it doesnt show up.
2007-04-12T10:53:01  <xorAxAx> LOL
2007-04-12T10:53:50  <ThomasWaldmann> nice way to shock applying students, isn't it? :-P
2007-04-12T12:08:49  <flowhase> good morning
2007-04-12T12:09:14  <xorAxAx> moin flowhase
2007-04-12T12:12:09  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: btw, you can also look into the irc logs if you want to track a discussion that happened the day before
2007-04-12T12:12:53  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: can you create a wiki page for your soc project in the moin wiki?
2007-04-12T12:17:07  <johill> I wonder if the ikiwiki latex-plugin student will talk to me
2007-04-12T12:19:50  <flowhase> ThomasWaldmann: i will just take a shower to get me started, afterwards i will send a fresh ssh key
2007-04-12T12:20:56  <xorAxAx> flowhase: a fresh one? :)
2007-04-12T12:21:05  <flowhase> xorAxAx: yeah :>
2007-04-12T12:21:28  <ThomasWaldmann> take it with you into the shower
2007-04-12T12:22:00  <dreimark>  johill:may be he has already your code :)
2007-04-12T12:22:04  <dreimark> :(
2007-04-12T12:22:35  <xorAxAx> johill: maybe he will rewrite the latex parser that is bundled with mediawiki accidently
2007-04-12T12:22:47  <xorAxAx> is it php, johill?
2007-04-12T12:24:17  <xorAxAx> oh, perl
2007-04-12T12:24:23  <xorAxAx> and its a "wiki compiler"
2007-04-12T12:24:38  <xorAxAx> johill: so how should the person benefit? and why does this task need 3 months? :)
2007-04-12T12:37:12  <johill> well, apparently they haven't given security problems any though
2007-04-12T12:37:14  <johill> thought
2007-04-12T12:37:24  <johill> but maybe that doesn't matter since ikiwiki committers are always trusted, no idea
2007-04-12T12:42:44  <xorAxAx> yes, because of authorization and inherent trust
2007-04-12T12:42:51  <xorAxAx> its a VCS-based wiki
2007-04-12T12:49:25  <johill> yeah I guess then it doesn't matter
2007-04-12T13:03:39  <dreimark> hi neagulm, did you have received an email by google?
2007-04-12T13:05:47  <dreimark> bbl by a quarter
2007-04-12T13:21:56  <flowhase> back from shower
2007-04-12T13:22:03  <flowhase> ThomasWaldmann: i send you the pubkey
2007-04-12T13:28:26  <ThomasWaldmann> flowhase: try your shiny new repo :)
2007-04-12T13:29:24  <flowhase> :>
2007-04-12T13:29:27  <ThomasWaldmann> neagulm: i need your ssh pubkey as an attachment to an email
2007-04-12T13:36:36  <ThomasWaldmann> http://code.google.com/soc/olpc/appinfo.html?csaid=C9E311B66EC72B74 strange
2007-04-12T13:37:28  <ThomasWaldmann> http://code.google.com/soc/olpc/appinfo.html?csaid=85248E1DE10CCD2B another
2007-04-12T13:44:43  <ThomasWaldmann> flowhase: does it work? (moin/1.6-template-fkrupicka)
2007-04-12T13:59:22  <neagulm> ok, I will send you my public key in a few moments
2007-04-12T14:11:47  <neagulm> I have sent you the corrent key at tw-public@gmx.de
2007-04-12T14:12:20  <dreimark> bb
2007-04-12T14:14:25  <neagulm> I have s question about soc: what does the red ballon at http://code.google.com/soc/moin/about.html mean ?
2007-04-12T14:17:34  <flowhase> you can add positional information in your soc-profile
2007-04-12T14:17:47  <flowhase> so one can track you via google maps
2007-04-12T14:17:48  <flowhase> :>
2007-04-12T14:18:30  <flowhase> ThomasWaldmann: ah, just checked out the std devel-repo
2007-04-12T14:18:34  <flowhase> wait a sec
2007-04-12T14:20:02  <dreimark> neagulm:thomas explained me that if it will work it shows up your gps coordinates
2007-04-12T14:22:29  <ThomasWaldmann> neagulm: it is for the icbms at the end of the program :D
2007-04-12T14:23:25  * flowhase changes his position to the white house
2007-04-12T14:33:02  <ThomasWaldmann> neagulm: ok, test your shiny new repo
2007-04-12T14:45:49  <ThomasWaldmann> neagulm: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/GoogleSoc2007 see the link to your wiki homepage, maybe create it and fill in some meaningful content
2007-04-12T15:14:22  <neagulm> ok
2007-04-12T15:14:55  <neagulm> i have to leave for school, i will be back later :)
2007-04-12T15:15:07  <ThomasWaldmann> cul8r :)
2007-04-12T15:16:41  <neagulm> before I leave: do you have some design documents about MoinMoin (specification, diagrams, etc) ?
2007-04-12T15:17:39  <flowhase> hmm, i could use those too :>
2007-04-12T15:18:44  <xorAxAx> neagulm: only those in the wiki
2007-04-12T15:18:50  <xorAxAx> esp. see MoinDev
2007-04-12T15:19:01  <xorAxAx> (MoinMoin:MoinDev)
2007-04-12T15:19:07  <neagulm> ok
2007-04-12T15:20:06  <neagulm> thanx
2007-04-12T15:20:16  <neagulm> see you later:)
2007-04-12T15:28:14  <ThomasWaldmann> flowhase: http://hg.thinkmo.de/doc/moin/1.6/ maybe this helps a bit
2007-04-12T15:29:25  <flowhase> uh oh ... this looks ... familiar
2007-04-12T15:29:49  * flowhase thinks about tons of xml files, tomcat and other horrors in his past ;>
2007-04-12T15:29:58  <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-04-12T15:30:06  <ThomasWaldmann> much stuff that is located in some subdirectory is plugable. that means your dont have to read all those plugins of that kind, but only (maybe) one of them.
2007-04-12T15:31:43  <ThomasWaldmann> flowhase: for you, it is mainly request, Page*, theme/__init__ (plus a look at everything else generating output :)
2007-04-12T15:32:41  <flowhase> k :>
2007-04-12T15:33:27  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe also look at Page.send_page()
2007-04-12T15:34:09  <ThomasWaldmann> there is an ancient todo of JH "kill send_page() quick", maybe you have the honour of doing that if you need it for your project :D
2007-04-12T15:34:23  <flowhase> yeah, i just read MoinDev/CodeStructure ... the 'call-graph' there was quite helpful
2007-04-12T15:34:38  <flowhase> hehe
2007-04-12T15:35:51  <flowhase> i think i will start with a GenshiTheme
2007-04-12T15:37:12  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, google says "coding starts end may". I don't know if that is a suggestion or mandatory, though.
2007-04-12T15:37:34  <flowhase> mandatory as in "NO CODE BEFORE MAY!"?
2007-04-12T15:37:52  <ThomasWaldmann> I'll ask :)
2007-04-12T15:37:58  <flowhase> :>
2007-04-12T15:50:30  <ThomasWaldmann> flowhase: some people on the soc channel think it doesn't matter (but they are not from google, so I maybe better ask when they wake up)
2007-04-12T16:42:55  <dreimark>  May 28: Students begin coding for their GSoC projects; looks more like not before june
2007-04-12T16:43:22  <xorAxAx> of course this means that they can do the design work before :)
2007-04-12T16:43:33  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: have you seen my messages?
2007-04-12T17:02:26  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: yeah, the question if whether someone minds in case of somebody commits code before that date
2007-04-12T17:02:51  <xorAxAx> well, maybe students because they would stop working earlier in the end
2007-04-12T19:17:46  <grzywacz> re
2007-04-12T19:18:03  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, I've already created my "personal" page on wiki, can I put project related stuff there?
2007-04-12T19:18:42  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: on a subpage, sure
2007-04-12T19:18:50  <ThomasWaldmann> i would rather make a new toplevel page for the project and link it from your homepage
2007-04-12T19:19:00  <xorAxAx> or like that
2007-04-12T19:20:07  <ThomasWaldmann> stuff on or below homepage is often considered rather personal/private
2007-04-12T19:20:22  <grzywacz> As you wish.
2007-04-12T19:20:38  <ThomasWaldmann> so you get more contrib when you do a toplevel page :)
2007-04-12T19:20:54  <ThomasWaldmann> link it from the gsoc page, too
2007-04-12T19:20:55  <xorAxAx> yes, people refrain from editing such pages
2007-04-12T20:23:56  <grzywacz> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/JabberSupport
2007-04-12T20:24:05  <grzywacz> There you go, first version. I'll extend it later on.
2007-04-12T20:26:23  <xorAxAx> cool
2007-04-12T20:48:16  <flowhase> re
2007-04-12T20:48:55  <flowhase> very nice ... just when i start to play around the hdd in our router-box at entropia dies horribly
2007-04-12T20:49:12  <flowhase> where is stable network when you need it? :>
2007-04-12T20:49:47  <xorAxAx> since when does a router need a hdd ...
2007-04-12T20:50:40  <flowhase> hmm ... well it's a bit more than just a router
2007-04-12T20:51:00  <flowhase> it has some services too
2007-04-12T20:51:12  <flowhase> and it does DMZ for 3 networks
2007-04-12T20:51:37  <xorAxAx> oh, DMZ, so you have 10 GB of firewalling rules? :)
2007-04-12T20:51:50  <flowhase> well .. no :>
2007-04-12T20:53:00  <grzywacz> My linux router used to work with a completly dead hdd.
2007-04-12T20:53:10  <grzywacz> Work as in "route packets", everything else went dead, of course.
2007-04-12T20:53:10  <flowhase> i think it's mainly a real box because the openwrt-boxes are not really stable
2007-04-12T20:53:21  <flowhase> and everything else costs money
2007-04-12T20:53:47  <xorAxAx> flowhase: my fritzbox is rebooting a few times per week :-(
2007-04-12T21:02:29  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, I have your contact in skype, right?
2007-04-12T21:02:31  <flowhase> xorAxAx: someone here at entropia told me that they knew the hdd was bit b0rken when they modified the router hardware about 1 year ago
2007-04-12T21:03:12  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: yes
2007-04-12T21:03:25  <flowhase> very funny ... it's just an old 2gb hdd and noone even thinks about exchanging it until it's too late :>
2007-04-12T21:03:38  <xorAxAx> flowhase: of course entropia had backups :-)
2007-04-12T21:03:53  <flowhase> no we hadn't :>
2007-04-12T21:04:32  <xorAxAx> well, 2 GB ... you can label it as paris hilton porn movie, prefix it with a short avi file and hope for people who dont delete such stuff
2007-04-12T21:04:39  <xorAxAx> ah, and share it over p2p
2007-04-12T21:06:03  <flowhase> we just decided that it was time for a new setup anyway
2007-04-12T21:06:06  <flowhase> the firewall sceri
2007-04-12T21:06:12  <flowhase> script looked awful
2007-04-12T21:07:02  <flowhase> and we decided we don't want debian anymore and installed a freebsd
2007-04-12T21:07:05  <flowhase> ;>
2007-04-12T21:07:20  <xorAxAx> why is that?
2007-04-12T21:07:28  <xorAxAx> do you dislike sexy elitist operating systems? :)
2007-04-12T21:07:43  <xorAxAx> how about plan9?
2007-04-12T21:07:58  <xorAxAx> or why not debian/kfreebsd? :)
2007-04-12T21:09:14  <flowhase> hrhr
2007-04-12T22:23:35  <grzywacz> Good night, I have to rest after the short night I had today (or yesterday). ;)
2007-04-12T22:23:58  <ThomasWaldmann> gn :)
2007-04-12T23:05:54  <dreimark> bb
2007-04-12T23:46:39  <CIA-28> moin: Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> * 1989:6d6379c9a1c9 /MoinMoin/action/AttachFile.py: AttachFile.send_viewfile: uses now colorizing parsers on view for mimetype text