2006-01-21T00:05:37 <xorAxAx> [PERIODIC ANNOUNCEMENT] Logs can be found on http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev
2006-01-21T10:27:48 <dreimark> we missed in the discussion yesterday about resetting a user password
2006-01-21T10:28:26 <dreimark> that it has not to be password problem why the user can't log in
2006-01-21T10:28:40 <dreimark> it could be a disabled account too
2006-01-21T10:29:26 <dreimark> that could be changed in UserPreferences
2006-01-21T10:30:01 <dreimark> So the superuser user of the wiki should be able to call UserPreferences for an other user
2006-01-21T10:30:19 <starshine> good reasons to not allow: bad password, bad origin (e.g. intranet doesn't want outside addresses logging in?), disabled account
2006-01-21T10:30:35 <dreimark> there the password could be changed or the flag disabled account could be removed
2006-01-21T10:31:00 <starshine> to "re enable" someone?
2006-01-21T10:31:06 <dreimark> yes
2006-01-21T10:31:09 <starshine> :)
2006-01-21T10:32:28 <dreimark> I think it is not necessary to add an additional action for that
2006-01-21T12:22:54 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: except that acl_rights doesnt make any sense (the word itself)
2006-01-21T12:23:16 <xorAxAx> access control list rights
2006-01-21T12:24:57 <starshine> allows one to edit ACLs itself? too weird
2006-01-21T12:25:13 <starshine> hard enough to explain ACL as it is :)
2006-01-21T12:27:36 <ThomasWaldmann> there are just less people here to comment, this is why i used #moin
2006-01-21T12:28:53 <ThomasWaldmann> you need to also read that ["backup"], so it is "acl, rights (for) backup"
2006-01-21T12:29:19 <ThomasWaldmann> we could also use acl["backup"]
2006-01-21T12:29:27 <DasSheep> so those are acls for global features
2006-01-21T12:29:38 <ThomasWaldmann> DasSheep: yes
2006-01-21T12:29:44 <starshine> it adds a new acl, yes, I think that works much better
2006-01-21T12:30:00 <ThomasWaldmann> that superuser stuff was a quick hack (and limited)
2006-01-21T12:30:27 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: any channce to put there 'create_page' too?
2006-01-21T12:30:42 <ThomasWaldmann> but it can be the case, that e.g. a customer should be able to get a backup of his stuff, but shouldnt be able to install software packages
2006-01-21T12:31:10 <ThomasWaldmann> DasSheep: not now
2006-01-21T12:31:29 <ThomasWaldmann> i just want to fix the insane stuff, not invent new
2006-01-21T12:33:29 <ThomasWaldmann> the next question is about security.py
2006-01-21T12:34:10 <ThomasWaldmann> there is a .save and the rest is via __getattr__ (for Page acls)
2006-01-21T12:34:41 <ThomasWaldmann> so we need some .special(name, right) there
2006-01-21T12:35:15 <ThomasWaldmann> so we can do user.may.special("backup", "read") for example
2006-01-21T12:35:31 <starshine> ooh that reads nicely
2006-01-21T12:35:57 <ThomasWaldmann> or may.special("read", "backup") ?
2006-01-21T12:36:25 <ThomasWaldmann> better word for special?
2006-01-21T12:36:41 <DasSheep> global?
2006-01-21T12:37:10 <ThomasWaldmann> before default after is also global
2006-01-21T12:37:24 <DasSheep> wiki
2006-01-21T12:37:26 <DasSheep> :)
2006-01-21T12:37:58 <DasSheep> additional
2006-01-21T12:38:01 <DasSheep> extra
2006-01-21T12:38:20 <DasSheep> admin
2006-01-21T12:38:52 <starshine> special_access
2006-01-21T12:39:12 <starshine> user.special_access("read", backup")
2006-01-21T12:39:17 <starshine> er
2006-01-21T12:39:23 <DasSheep> action
2006-01-21T12:39:24 * starshine fixi quotes :)
2006-01-21T12:39:39 <starshine> user.special_action("read", "backup")
2006-01-21T12:39:51 <starshine> yeah that reads ok.
2006-01-21T12:40:19 <ThomasWaldmann> we could maybe think ahead...
2006-01-21T12:40:35 <ThomasWaldmann> that before default after stuff is similar
2006-01-21T12:40:36 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: everything user can do can be called action ;)
2006-01-21T12:41:15 <ThomasWaldmann> we just have stuff in the cfg for some object class and some in the object(s)
2006-01-21T12:41:31 <xorAxAx> umm, may is ok
2006-01-21T12:42:10 <ThomasWaldmann> so that cfg.acl_rights_before is for object class "page"
2006-01-21T12:42:47 <starshine> I like: user.may_special("write", "backup")
2006-01-21T12:43:18 <xorAxAx> starshine: doesnt really make sense to me
2006-01-21T12:43:20 <starshine> or may_special_acl ?
2006-01-21T12:43:23 <ThomasWaldmann> so if we split the acl treatment for pages at some time, so that page object handles page acls only,
2006-01-21T12:43:50 <starshine> there will be a time later, when someone does not think "backup" seems so special
2006-01-21T12:43:51 <xorAxAx> user.may({'wiki':'backup'}) would be straight forward
2006-01-21T12:44:21 <starshine> that's which user, and which acl, but not which priv to the acl
2006-01-21T12:44:31 <DasSheep> user.may({'action':'backup'})
2006-01-21T12:44:40 <ThomasWaldmann> we maybe want to query user.may.special("read", "page_before") (will get the thing now called acl_rights_before)
2006-01-21T12:44:41 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: hmm, no
2006-01-21T12:44:55 <starshine> besides isn't the object user. already logged in as 'wiki' or whoever?
2006-01-21T12:45:05 <xorAxAx> starshine: ?
2006-01-21T12:45:08 <starshine> u
2006-01-21T12:45:13 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: wiki is the object that has the ACL
2006-01-21T12:45:30 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: action is just a lousy group
2006-01-21T12:45:32 <starshine> I don't see the use of the word 'wiki' in your line user.may
2006-01-21T12:45:41 <xorAxAx> starshine: because you backup the whole wiki
2006-01-21T12:45:47 <xorAxAx> you could use a / alternatively
2006-01-21T12:46:05 <starshine> going to acl backup to not be the whole wiki? interesting, but dangerous.
2006-01-21T12:46:34 <xorAxAx> hmm, no, logical
2006-01-21T12:46:40 <xorAxAx> every ACL is attached to an object
2006-01-21T12:46:45 <xorAxAx> currently this is per page
2006-01-21T12:47:48 <starshine> acl in wikiconfig are assigned by person, acl in #acl are for a given page, but we don't offer acl by grouping-of-pages
2006-01-21T12:48:01 <starshine> it's been asked for.. so while we are looking ahead..
2006-01-21T12:48:26 <DasSheep> acl in wikiconfig are assigned to the whole wiki too :/
2006-01-21T12:48:52 <starshine> acl in wikiconfig "person" can be a grouping, so... page should be able to also be grouped, but I can't easily see how to express it
2006-01-21T12:48:53 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: yeah
2006-01-21T12:49:01 <starshine> perhaps another in the regex tweaks
2006-01-21T12:49:07 <xorAxAx> starshine: i think you miss the concept of ACLs
2006-01-21T12:49:31 <xorAxAx> acls are lists of (person/group, permission) tuples that are attached to an object
2006-01-21T12:49:35 <starshine> no, I might want to be able to say "all pages in CategoryTraining can be edited by TrainersGroup"
2006-01-21T12:49:38 <xorAxAx> nothing more or less
2006-01-21T12:49:44 <starshine> and current wikiconfig cannot express this.
2006-01-21T12:49:49 <xorAxAx> and that already works
2006-01-21T12:49:51 <DasSheep> xorAxAx: then all acl setting in wikiconfig apply to the whole wiki and you don't have to stress it
2006-01-21T12:50:31 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: it should be possible to backup a single page later-on
2006-01-21T12:51:05 <starshine> #acl_special backup TapeApe:read WikiAdmin:read,write
2006-01-21T12:51:17 <starshine> ^ per page logic just as applicable, then.
2006-01-21T12:52:03 <xorAxAx> starshine: that doesnt make sense
2006-01-21T12:52:17 <xorAxAx> starshine: why backup and read?
2006-01-21T12:52:45 <starshine> xorAxAx: ThomasWaldmann expressed backup as being a powet which has sub_acls read,write
2006-01-21T12:52:48 <xorAxAx> there are 2 solutions: either implement a new permission called backup
2006-01-21T12:52:51 <starshine> therefore ..
2006-01-21T12:52:54 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: why is that?
2006-01-21T12:53:07 <starshine> either you need backup_read,backup_write
2006-01-21T12:53:07 <xorAxAx> or create a virtual backup action object
2006-01-21T12:53:20 <xorAxAx> what is backup_read?!
2006-01-21T12:53:23 <starshine> or you need a weird way to handle new privs that can have subfeatures
2006-01-21T12:54:36 <starshine> acl_rights_before = 'WikiSmartAdmin:admin,read,write,backup_write TapeApe:read,backup_read BossMan:read,write,revert,admin,delete'
2006-01-21T12:55:31 <starshine> backup_read would give "read" power to TapeApe when he's in whatever context the backup is, but otherwise, there are pages he can't read just like any other joe user
2006-01-21T12:55:32 <DasSheep> xorAxAx: then why not #acl TheSheep:backup ?
2006-01-21T12:55:43 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: thats my first suggestion
2006-01-21T12:56:23 <DasSheep> is it really that special to invent new ui for it?
2006-01-21T12:56:28 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: so what is backup/read backup/write?
2006-01-21T12:56:35 <starshine> so... is backup a special state to get its own acl system (that 'admin' right does not affect) ?
2006-01-21T12:56:36 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: UI?
2006-01-21T12:56:44 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: i dont see any UI :)
2006-01-21T12:57:11 <starshine> heh, we can't have sysadmin-I until we decide how it actually *works*
2006-01-21T12:57:53 <DasSheep> xorAxAx: you don't?
2006-01-21T12:58:38 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: no, so where do you see one?
2006-01-21T12:59:30 <ThomasWaldmann> sorry, was at the phone ...
2006-01-21T12:59:57 <DasSheep> xorAxAx: well, user wants to have something done (right assigned), so he interacts with the system to do it (edit the wikiconfig.py) <-- thats ui
2006-01-21T13:00:22 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: i dont see a new UI, i mean
2006-01-21T13:00:29 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: the config is a very old UI
2006-01-21T13:00:42 <starshine> DasSheep: that's not *user* interface, that's *sysadmin* interface. for which the buzzword is "configuration"
2006-01-21T13:00:44 <DasSheep> xorAxAx: intorducing a new variable and a new syntax for it
2006-01-21T13:00:58 <DasSheep> starshine: s/user/human/
2006-01-21T13:01:09 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: i dont see where i suggest new syntax
2006-01-21T13:01:25 <starshine> DasSheep: here the distinction is critical, because UI implies visible from only websurfing.
2006-01-21T13:01:29 <DasSheep> xorAxAx: you don't, and that's what I like it in this approach ;)
2006-01-21T13:01:41 <starshine> e.g BossMan with his admin right.
2006-01-21T13:02:18 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: ok
2006-01-21T13:02:40 <xorAxAx> having a fckdialog which allows you to create acls would be a nice addition as well
2006-01-21T13:03:10 * DasSheep has seen too many "automated firewall configurators"
2006-01-21T13:03:27 <ThomasWaldmann> backup is not intended on page level
2006-01-21T13:03:37 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: there is actually a #python.de guy working on that :)
2006-01-21T13:03:47 <ThomasWaldmann> it is just done for the whole data_dir
2006-01-21T13:04:05 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: then it is something to be attached to a virtual wiki object
2006-01-21T13:04:22 <xorAxAx> acl_wiki = "TapeOperator:backup" for example
2006-01-21T13:05:01 <xorAxAx> as long as there is no hierachical acls, that string would have to be evaluated only for things that operate on the whole wiki
2006-01-21T13:05:09 <ThomasWaldmann> then we will have many different rights
2006-01-21T13:05:22 <xorAxAx> yeah
2006-01-21T13:05:26 <ThomasWaldmann> for backup action: backup,restore
2006-01-21T13:05:27 <xorAxAx> we need acl plugins %-)
2006-01-21T13:07:16 <ThomasWaldmann> so the backup right string implicitely contains the object or action
2006-01-21T13:07:17 <starshine> .o( ldap says he's ok to do $action ...
2006-01-21T13:07:29 <ThomasWaldmann> backup,restore -> backup.py
2006-01-21T13:07:42 <ThomasWaldmann> read,write,delete,revert,admin -> Page
2006-01-21T13:08:09 <DasSheep> update ;)
2006-01-21T13:08:13 <ThomasWaldmann> install -> Packages installation
2006-01-21T13:08:50 <DasSheep> update action <-- downloads latest stable release of moin, unpacks and runs setup.py :D
2006-01-21T13:09:01 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: already possible using package installer
2006-01-21T13:09:12 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: feel free to assemble it :)
2006-01-21T13:09:14 <DasSheep> and call it "annihilate" :)
2006-01-21T13:10:01 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: what is the "backup right string"?
2006-01-21T13:11:04 <xorAxAx> BRB
2006-01-21T13:11:20 <ThomasWaldmann> question is unclear for me
2006-01-21T13:11:55 <ThomasWaldmann> the problem with that scheme is implementation in security.py
2006-01-21T13:13:42 <ThomasWaldmann> and I think using a dict of key -> acl is a better idea than inventing lots of acl_ keywords
2006-01-21T13:16:37 <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: reading all wiki data (in form of a backup.tgz) should be a different right than overwriting to the whole wiki (as done when restoring a wiki backup)
2006-01-21T13:17:29 <ThomasWaldmann> the first thing is just a matter of trust. if you can trust that guy, he can make as many backups as he wants.
2006-01-21T13:18:02 <ThomasWaldmann> the second thing is technically not easy (and the implementation of it isnt really ready)
2006-01-21T13:18:36 <starshine> I can imagine other wiki-wide features possible
2006-01-21T13:18:42 <starshine> e.g. scrubcache
2006-01-21T13:18:47 <ThomasWaldmann> so you would give that restore (write) right only to trusted AND technically very experienced wiki admins
2006-01-21T13:19:07 <ThomasWaldmann> starshine: sure
2006-01-21T13:20:05 <starshine> thus my example of the SmartWikiAdmin (who we can presume has also got an ordinary user account for himself) and BossMan (who *is* in charge of things, but only ever from his desk - hard stuff he leaves to his sysadmin).
2006-01-21T13:21:04 <ThomasWaldmann> starshine: the problem for acl_rights_before is that it is used for PAGES.
2006-01-21T13:21:22 <ThomasWaldmann> so before == before_page_acl_is_read
2006-01-21T13:21:39 <ThomasWaldmann> so it is not quite appropriate for wiki level things
2006-01-21T13:24:08 <starshine> hm. The good reason for the split then, is that wiki-wide things if acl'd at page level, would require processing time of linear
2006-01-21T13:24:23 <starshine> if I've 16000 pages they'll all get asked the same thing! ugh!
2006-01-21T13:25:17 <starshine> what's not noticeable at 50 pages is itchy at 400 and really annoying at scale.
2006-01-21T13:25:40 <ThomasWaldmann> dont forget the revisions :)
2006-01-21T13:26:20 <ThomasWaldmann> this would just get fscking complicated, error prone and slow
2006-01-21T13:26:34 <ThomasWaldmann> == no good attributes for a backup
2006-01-21T13:27:06 <starshine> and the whole point of backup would be to keep those revisions
2006-01-21T13:27:15 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, lets try to summarize and get more clear
2006-01-21T13:27:22 <starshine> can't be done on just the current page, otherwise wget would be the preferred method.
2006-01-21T13:27:28 <ThomasWaldmann> we have to have some "scope" thing
2006-01-21T13:27:54 <ThomasWaldmann> scope = whole wiki, all pages, single page
2006-01-21T13:28:15 <ThomasWaldmann> for such a scope, we want ACLs
2006-01-21T13:28:39 <ThomasWaldmann> a single page ACL is just defined on the page itself, so this is already solved.
2006-01-21T13:29:15 <xorAxAx> my acl object model is simpler: there are objects with ACLs
2006-01-21T13:29:16 <ThomasWaldmann> all pages scope is what we have in acl_rights_{before,after,default} now
2006-01-21T13:30:02 <ThomasWaldmann> wiki scope is for stuff like backup/restore, sw installation etc.
2006-01-21T13:30:33 <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: there is no wiki object
2006-01-21T13:30:37 <starshine> alas I'm exhausted, it's 4am mytime
2006-01-21T13:30:55 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: those are virtual anyway
2006-01-21T13:30:55 <ThomasWaldmann> starshine: maybe have some sleep :)
2006-01-21T13:31:01 <starshine> yes :D
2006-01-21T13:31:37 <ThomasWaldmann> so how about:
2006-01-21T13:31:44 <ThomasWaldmann> cfg.acl = {
2006-01-21T13:34:38 <ThomasWaldmann> 'wiki': u'+BackupAdmin:backup +RestoreAdmin:backup,restore +PackageAdmin:packageinstall +WikiAdmin:cleancache'
2006-01-21T13:35:20 <ThomasWaldmann> 'pages_before': ... (see acl_rights_before now)
2006-01-21T13:35:34 <ThomasWaldmann> 'pages_default': ... (see acl_rights_default now)
2006-01-21T13:35:46 <xorAxAx> hmm, ok
2006-01-21T13:35:47 <ThomasWaldmann> 'pages_after': ... (see acl_rights_after now)
2006-01-21T13:35:54 <ThomasWaldmann> }
2006-01-21T13:36:00 <xorAxAx> but for 1.5, it should accept the old format as well
2006-01-21T13:36:10 <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2006-01-21T13:37:25 <ThomasWaldmann> problem: that "wiki" acl can get very long
2006-01-21T13:38:12 <xorAxAx> multiline strings are ok, or should be
2006-01-21T13:38:17 <ThomasWaldmann> and our acl_rights_valid check is maybe not good enough
2006-01-21T13:38:40 <xorAxAx> that can be fixed
2006-01-21T13:39:24 <ThomasWaldmann> having some cfg.acl_rights_valid dict with the same keys?
2006-01-21T13:42:27 <xorAxAx> hmm, why?
2006-01-21T13:42:48 <ThomasWaldmann> because page acls should not accept "backup" as a right
2006-01-21T13:43:19 <ThomasWaldmann> or packageinstall
2006-01-21T13:49:42 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: think about an OOP solution. the page object should publish something to this regard
2006-01-21T13:50:09 <ThomasWaldmann> looks like this will get a bigger refactoring
2006-01-21T13:50:23 <ThomasWaldmann> thus not for 1.5.1
2006-01-21T13:50:57 <ThomasWaldmann> so I need just something that is likely to be compatibly with the bigger refactoring later on
2006-01-21T13:52:11 <ThomasWaldmann> that might be that cfg.acl posted above plus maybe some acl_rights_valid = list-of-everything
2006-01-21T13:52:38 <xorAxAx> ok, so we should postpone it maybe
2006-01-21T13:53:35 <ThomasWaldmann> some people need that "user may make a backup, but may not install software"
2006-01-21T13:53:49 <ThomasWaldmann> so superuser is not working
2006-01-21T13:55:52 <xorAxAx> yeah, but they have to wait :)
2006-01-21T13:56:52 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, so we delay it to after 1.5.1
2006-01-21T13:57:02 <ThomasWaldmann> other fixes pending?
2006-01-21T13:57:07 <xorAxAx> no
2006-01-21T14:00:03 <ThomasWaldmann> i will have a look at classic theme footer's edit link now
2006-01-21T14:04:54 <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: if you have time, look at rightsidebar and IE http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinMoinBugs/InternetExplorerPeekABooBugInRightSideBar
2006-01-21T17:58:01 <ThomasWaldmann> send_footer sometimes gets a form=form kw argument. anybody seeing a reason why I should NOT remove it?
2006-01-21T18:01:38 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: grep the code
2006-01-21T18:01:49 <xorAxAx> and document the change
2006-01-21T18:01:53 <ThomasWaldmann> i did. noone uses it.
2006-01-21T18:02:33 <ThomasWaldmann> same for showpage and editable (after my change) kwargs which i already removed
2006-01-21T18:06:31 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, did that
2006-01-21T18:53:29 <ThomasWaldmann> i am thinking about theme.pageinfo() containing the interwiki:pagename at the beginning, so it reads:
2006-01-21T18:54:24 <ThomasWaldmann> MoinMoin:FrontPage last edited 2005-12-11 00:37:00 by ThomasWaldmann
2006-01-21T18:54:55 <ThomasWaldmann> (this is rendered under bottom of content in modern)
2006-01-21T18:55:06 <ThomasWaldmann> plus change classic to also show it there
2006-01-21T18:55:31 <ThomasWaldmann> plus remove ugly interwiki:pagename small font stuff from print view
2006-01-21T18:57:03 <ThomasWaldmann> and close http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinMoinBugs/Print_View_Heading_Unreadable
2006-01-21T18:57:31 <ThomasWaldmann> comments?
2006-01-21T18:59:13 <xorAxAx> how would it look in the print view?
2006-01-21T19:04:04 <ThomasWaldmann> the same way
2006-01-21T19:06:44 <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinMoinBugs/Print_View_Heading_Unreadable?action=print
2006-01-21T19:06:52 <ThomasWaldmann> minus what you see at top
2006-01-21T19:07:19 <ThomasWaldmann> plus maybe some .replace(" ", "_")
2006-01-21T19:08:26 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: and %20
2006-01-21T19:08:35 <DasSheep> and other %xx
2006-01-21T19:08:46 <ThomasWaldmann> there is no %xx
2006-01-21T19:08:53 <ThomasWaldmann> it is the page.page_name
2006-01-21T19:09:16 <DasSheep> ah, it looked to me like an url, sorry
2006-01-21T19:12:17 <DasSheep> still rendering pagelocation as a list :/
2006-01-21T19:13:11 <ThomasWaldmann> reload
2006-01-21T19:13:31 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, we use "serif" for print, is that OK?
2006-01-21T19:14:05 <DasSheep> serif usually looks better on paper
2006-01-21T19:19:15 <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinMoinBugs/Print_View_Heading_Unreadable?action=print look there now
2006-01-21T19:24:01 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: imho a comma after the page name would nicely separate it from the rest
2006-01-21T19:24:17 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: especially if you remove the underscores
2006-01-21T19:24:43 <ThomasWaldmann> you think it is better with no underscores?
2006-01-21T19:25:10 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: yes, provided you mark cleanly where the address ends
2006-01-21T19:25:42 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: either make it italic, or make a gap, or use some quotes or parens, don't know
2006-01-21T19:25:58 <ThomasWaldmann> or a -
2006-01-21T19:26:13 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: yes, or even an emdash
2006-01-21T19:26:38 <ThomasWaldmann> or ... (last edited ...)
2006-01-21T19:27:06 <DasSheep> no, that's not what you use ellipsis for :/
2006-01-21T19:27:28 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: are you sure?
2006-01-21T19:27:37 <DasSheep> xorAxAx: at least in polish
2006-01-21T19:27:52 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: it doesnt look like he wants to use it on the page
2006-01-21T19:28:10 <DasSheep> ah
2006-01-21T19:28:13 * DasSheep is dumb
2006-01-21T19:28:32 <DasSheep> sorry, you mean the parens
2006-01-21T19:28:35 <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinMoinBugs/Print_View_Heading_Unreadable?action=print
2006-01-21T19:29:19 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: can you right-align it?
2006-01-21T19:31:57 <ThomasWaldmann> reload
2006-01-21T19:32:19 <DasSheep> nothing changed? :/
2006-01-21T19:32:38 <ThomasWaldmann> it is float: right now
2006-01-21T19:33:14 <DasSheep> doesn't seem to work for me
2006-01-21T19:33:36 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: maybe just make text-align: right on the enclosing block-level element?
2006-01-21T19:34:01 <DasSheep> i.e. on p.pageinfo
2006-01-21T19:34:08 <DasSheep> p#pageinfo
2006-01-21T19:34:27 <ThomasWaldmann> .info {
2006-01-21T19:34:27 <ThomasWaldmann> float: right;
2006-01-21T19:34:27 <ThomasWaldmann> font-size: 0.85em;
2006-01-21T19:34:27 <ThomasWaldmann> color: gray;
2006-01-21T19:34:27 <ThomasWaldmann> }
2006-01-21T19:35:10 <DasSheep> strange, doesn't float for me, has noirmal font size and is black :/
2006-01-21T19:35:24 <ThomasWaldmann> clear cache
2006-01-21T19:35:51 <DasSheep> nope
2006-01-21T19:36:00 * DasSheep has cache disabled by default
2006-01-21T19:36:57 <ThomasWaldmann> now?
2006-01-21T19:37:56 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: say, which theme do you edit?
2006-01-21T19:38:02 <ThomasWaldmann> modern
2006-01-21T19:38:15 <DasSheep> that explains a lot ;)
2006-01-21T19:38:22 <ThomasWaldmann> :)
2006-01-21T19:38:58 <ThomasWaldmann> so I go back to float: right....
2006-01-21T19:39:10 <ThomasWaldmann> try now
2006-01-21T19:39:32 <DasSheep> it's ok either way
2006-01-21T19:39:38 <DasSheep> looks perfect ;)
2006-01-21T19:40:20 <ThomasWaldmann> i think i add some space after the interwiki :
2006-01-21T19:40:41 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: yes, that'd balance with the spaces in the page title
2006-01-21T19:40:52 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: but not when the title doesn't have spaces
2006-01-21T19:41:35 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, when it is ok now, i make same changes for other themes
2006-01-21T19:42:27 <ThomasWaldmann> do you have a printer nearby? if yes, could you really print it and look if it is ok?
2006-01-21T19:42:42 <DasSheep> unfortunatelly, no printer
2006-01-21T19:43:31 <DasSheep> well, I've got one pold mosaic printer, but can't get it to work with cups :(
2006-01-21T19:45:02 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: I can print to ps and look at that
2006-01-21T19:49:47 <ThomasWaldmann> I wanted to know if it is ok on paper
2006-01-21T19:51:44 * DasSheep struggles with his printer
2006-01-21T20:02:55 <DasSheep> ok, made it work under windows :\
2006-01-21T20:14:37 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: you brought a GDI printer?
2006-01-21T20:14:38 <xorAxAx> muhahaha
2006-01-21T20:14:47 * xorAxAx pets his HP LJ 4
2006-01-21T20:16:32 <DasSheep> xorAxAx: I didn't buy it, I inherited it :D
2006-01-21T20:17:02 <xorAxAx> DasSheep: your parents died?
2006-01-21T20:17:27 <DasSheep> xorAxAx: no, but they bought a real printer several years ago
2006-01-21T20:17:50 <DasSheep> xorAxAx: so they didn't need this one
2006-01-21T20:18:28 <DasSheep> I just used it for the first time
2006-01-21T20:18:32 <DasSheep> amazing it works
2006-01-21T20:18:43 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: that text gets wrapped :(
2006-01-21T20:18:58 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: at just after "by"
2006-01-21T20:34:42 <ThomasWaldmann> DasSheep: it doesnt fit your printer page width?
2006-01-21T20:40:10 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: it would fit if not that empty space on the left
2006-01-21T20:40:55 <DasSheep> or maybe not -- it looks like "ThomasWaldmann" could fit there, but I'm not sure
2006-01-21T20:41:51 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: try to shrink your browser window
2006-01-21T20:42:15 <DasSheep> I think that it would look better with text-align: right;
2006-01-21T20:50:25 <ThomasWaldmann> how about font size and readability? can we shrink it?
2006-01-21T20:52:13 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: I'd say you could get down a point or two
2006-01-21T20:52:40 <DasSheep> and since it's mozaic printer, It's really bad quality
2006-01-21T20:52:44 <DasSheep> so it's safe
2006-01-21T20:53:03 <DasSheep> right now the footer is about average bookprint size
2006-01-21T21:21:42 <ThomasWaldmann> ok
2006-01-21T21:24:34 <ThomasWaldmann> down to 0.7em
2006-01-21T21:24:38 <ThomasWaldmann> (modern)
2006-01-21T21:26:11 * DasSheep got his printer working with cups
2006-01-21T21:36:08 <ThomasWaldmann> ok now?
2006-01-21T21:50:48 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: I have to configure it a bit, right now that bottom line is unreadable printed on 60x72 DPI ;)
2006-01-21T21:53:57 <ThomasWaldmann> I commit it now, printing has to be fixed later.
2006-01-21T21:57:13 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: looks much better in 240X72 DPI :D
2006-01-21T21:57:30 <ThomasWaldmann> it still doesnt fit in a single line
2006-01-21T21:58:04 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: you can't help it, there might be some really long page title and really long user name
2006-01-21T21:58:21 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: you must ensure the wrapping is good
2006-01-21T21:58:51 <ThomasWaldmann> we can make the font reasonably small
2006-01-21T21:59:04 <ThomasWaldmann> that is why I am asking someone looking at some paper output
2006-01-21T22:00:36 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: not sure you should use em then
2006-01-21T22:00:56 <DasSheep> ThomasWaldmann: rather use absolute sizes
2006-01-21T22:15:45 <ThomasWaldmann> I read [.doc files] with "rm". All you lose is the microsoft-specific font selections, the macro viruses and the luser babblings.
2006-01-21T22:15:49 <ThomasWaldmann> -- Gary "Wolf" Barnes
2006-01-21T22:20:35 <DasSheep> it's one posiible solution
2006-01-21T22:21:58 <xorAxAx> but off topic here
2006-01-21T22:49:27 <ThomasWaldmann> any last words? :)
2006-01-21T23:23:39 <ThomasWaldmann> http://arch.thinkmo.de/moin-1.5.1.tar.gz if someone likes to test MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2006-01-21 (last edited 2007-10-29 19:10:40 by localhost)
